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Ankama Trackers

[1.65 Feedback] Class Balancing: Ouginak

By [Ankama]WAKFU - ADMINISTRATOR - August 29, 2019, 14:26:33
DevTracker AnkaTracker

Hello everyone,

Please post your feedback here.

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First Ankama intervention

Replying to Datsuki

It was actually caused by the nation wings thing. Even if they're not big (grade 10), they occupy the whole possible space of grade 1 wings.

Siu.

See message in context
Reactions 44
Score : 1018

I really liked the new ougi !

And I'm glad you fixed the wing in combat!

Also, what about the "mob/player info pop up" when you hover the mouse over a character? It also prevents from clicking in the combat field spot. It was also fixed with the nation wings thing?

​​​​​​​Fukumoto

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It was actually caused by the nation wings thing. Even if they're not big (grade 10), they occupy the whole possible space of grade 1 wings.

Siu.

There's an issue on the number of targets hit by Brawl and Watchdog, the armor generated is way higher than it should be because the number of targets doesn't reinitialize from spell to spell, which may cause overpowered armors for now.

The team is aware of the issue and it will be fixed in the next beta update.

Thank you for your understanding.

On another note, this is a quite voluminous rework so I'll be especially awaiting for your feedback. Thanks in advance and have fun in your beta testing.

Siu.

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Score : 45

Everytime I get more then 30 fury with my ouginak, total fury is reset to 0. Is this a bug or is it supposed to work this way?

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Score : 932

Hello there! - I would like to request for one more Earth spell to become Single Target, and for one more Air skill to become AoE.



As it is now on the beta, the only Earth spell that deals single target damage would be Fits and Starts, which has a very harsh limiters build in for consecutive use (1/target, extra mileage out of spell based on Prey). Effectively this means that it becomes very hard to actually dedicate all (or even most) of your AP spend on Earth spells, which again makes one wonder why dedicating yourself to Earth on a single target build would be even worth it.

Similarly, since it's the 'only' Single Target Earth spell, it also won't make sense to be used in any AoE focussed Ouginak, leaving the spell to basically only be practical in use for all-round damagers. (Or perhaps PvP)

Having at least one more single target Earth spell would allow a single target build to allow themselves to actually focus down enemies weak to earth.




As for Air needing one more AoE spell, as it is currently Water has two AoE spells, and Air one - all of which are also WP using spells.
If you have an AoE focussed build, that means that the moment you do run out of WP, you are stranded with just Earth spells. I figured one extra non-WP using spell could be included, and Air's lack of AoE spells could be a good remedy to allow such a build to be more viable.
 

Other personal things I'd like to comment on:

- The Ouginak suddenly got stripped from a lot of its health-stealing - Too much imho. I would love to see a bit more of that return in some way or another - it was an iconic Ouginak thing that as a build-choice was/is even complimented by its passives.

- Lots of Ouginak spells feel a bit bland/uninspired still too, showing the redundant nature of what happens when you hardly allow a class to do anything other than just DPS: Weigh Down is a flat water damager, Rukus is a flat damager with arguably interesting setup, Fits and Starts is technically pure damage, Sweeping is just damage. 
On top of that, Gash, like most armour stealers, will function as just a pure damage dealer in most fights, and Crosshatch and Fangs in the Work feel too similar for variety's sake too. There needs to be a bit more tactical choice here for a tactical MMORPG instead of a toolkit with just differently sharpened swords.

- Haggling, while receiving a deserved change, has now been changed into a state of confused focus.
Its AP reduction on two utility skills that you will only use quite infrequently feels useless, and probably pulls the potential of its new focus down - the gained resistance boon.
I'd rather see a full focus on tanking/resistance within a passive, or see the return of the old AP reduction on WP Elemental Spells returned, but with a spam-preventive measure included (Like say, a hardcap on just two WP elemental spells per turn with the passive)
 

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Score : 45

I agree with Sheni, many Ouginak spells just became too flat. Weigh down had life steal, MP removal and didn't required line of sight, and now is just bland damage. Same for Sweeping, which now do not move enemies anymore (and was the only way the Ouginak had to move enemies, even if not much effective).

As for Ruckus, since now the bow wow has way less damage power, giving the Haggling passive don't let him cast more then 2 WP spells anymore, I like how he's able to attack during the Ouginak turn, but the way he does that is a bit tricky. Aside from the first turn when you summon the bow wow, it will be very difficult to be able to cast the Ruckus spell efficiently, since the Ouginak has no way of moving his bow wow during his turn. So I suggest either you give him a spell to move the bow wow, or make the bow wow attack a random adjacent enemy while using Ruckus, regardless if he's looking at him or not (first check on the enemy in front of him).

Fits and Starts, which was the strongest spell in the Ouginak deck, is now very limited. You can only hit with full power once (and once with the bow wow), since you can only do full damage to your prey, and for the rest is just a too much expensive damaging spell. So I'd say either you make it 2 uses per target (even a bit less powerful) or you make the non-reducible damage higher.

Dealing damage with poison was complicated, and even if you stacked two spells in one, the way the poison is triggered is still awkward, and now you can't even double the output with pugnacity (tho the new pugnacity is very good!). If bleeding was triggered by >3 AP spells and fracture by MP spent in movement, even with less output, it would be way better.

Other spell suggestions:
- Sweeping = push the enemy (prey) backwards of 1 cell (seriously, I want a push spell! °A°)
- Weigh down = even from the name you can tell it should remove something from the target. If not MP (since there are other spells for that, although I wound't mind another one), maybe resistance since crosshatch doesn't remove it anymore? Or just make it lifesteal again, around 25-30% to compensate for the higher area damage.

Bugs found:
- Fury is reset to 0 everytime the 30 fury cap is passed.
- The Ardor passive doesn't apply prey at level 2.

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Hello,

Following up on your feedbacks, we implemented a few tweaks on the Ouginak. I'm sharing them with you to have your opinion about them as soon as possible.
This list of changes isn't final.

Fixed some issues (Fury going back to 0, etc.)

Elemental spells

Weigh Down
  • Reduced base Damage (0.04 per level)
  • Now has a 3 uses per turn restriction

Curse
  • Increased base Damage (0.05 per level)


Fits and starts
  • No longer deals non-reductible damage
  • The damage penetrates the target's armor
  • No longer costs a WP
  • Now has a 2 uses per target restriction

Brawl
  • Costs 4 AP 1 WP
  • Deals Single-Target damage (92 at level 200)
  • The Ouginak gains Armor (440 at level 200, +5% per Fury point)
  • Now has a 2 uses per turn restriction

Sweeping
  • Reduced base damage of the spell (now 100 at level 200)
  • If the Ouginak has 30 or more Fury :
  • Deals an extra 40 air damage
  • Consums 10 Fury

Pugnacity
  • Increased base damage of the spell
  • No longer costs WP
  • No longer applies Stabilized
  • The Ouginak gains 5 Fury when the Pugnacity poison is triggered
 

Non-elementary spells


Were-Ouginak
  • No longer costs AP (the spell is totally free)
  • No longer removes MP to the Ouginak
  • No longer increases heals and armors received

Prey
  • Now level 7 maximum

Bow Wow
  • Bow Wow's spell Sniffing :
  • Costs 2 AP 1 WP, with a 1 to 3 non-modifiable range, 2 turns to recharge
  • The Ouginak no longer gains Fury for each enemy around the Bow Wow
  • Sniffing now stabilizes the target. If the target is an ally, the Ouginak gains 5 Fury.
 

Passives

Exhaustion
  • No longer reduces the AP cost of Pugnacity

Raiding
  • Changed the malus for Armor granted into a bonus for Armor granted (+30%)
  • No longer transforms Health Steal into Armor gain

Ardor
  • Increased the HP bonus of the passive by an extra 100% of the Ouginak's level
  • No longer applies Prey at level 2
  • No longer decaps Prey's level to a max of 10
  • When no Prey is available in game, the Ouginak gains 20% Damage Inflicted

Haggling
  • -2 max WP (instead of -3)
  • No longer reduces the AP cost of non-elemental spells
  • Added a Force of Will bonus (20)
  • Increased the Elemental Resistance gain to 2/3 per Fury point (previously 1/2)


Thank you again for your feedback and have a good time on the beta.

Siu.
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Score : 3627
  • When no Prey is available in game, the Ouginak gains 20% Damage Inflicted

What.
So he gains 20% damage of all the enemies are dead?
Or is it a permanent +20 if you don't use prey?
0 -1
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Score : 5224

By the looks of it, it is a +20% damage bonus for as long as there is no Prey mark on the battlefield - Pretty nice too for initiation before you (re-)cast Prey.

1 0
Score : 179

Hi guys! i really like the new ougi changes,  buti think the air spells like pugnancity and contusion still weak, its poison effects have a weak damage(contusion, i think pugnacity have a great dmg)  and are ocasional, ik the poisons give to the 2 rage and are only an extra tool for the ougi, but the earth/water spell still better, so what about making the air spells more interactive with the rage like sweeping?
something like pugnacity apply x lvls of poison per point of rage and consume it, if the target finish his turn in range of prey the poison brings to the ougi a %of the rage used and if he doesnt the poison activates but with a malus of damage, and contusion can be something like the mp poison makes a low damage but it activates per mp used, if the target activates the poison at the end of the turn brings to the ougi 2 or 3 rage, the Ap posion i think its ok, or the poisons of contusion makes more damage per cell  between the ougi and the target, 
att:Mag ^^

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Score : 5224

I just really don't like the way the poisons from Contusion proc, speaking purely as a PvE player. It feels random and even somewhat clumsy.

A friend of mine, new to Wakfu, was trying out the Air poisons, and I had to elaborate to him how they worked. This is seriously pretty much how it went:

"So this poison deals damage per movement spend?"
"No, it deals damage per initiated movement!"
"Ehh, what's the difference?"
"Well the A.I. might pick a point to move to, spend 4 movement points on it, and then arrive - then they get damaged once. It might possibly move again after it attacked with remaining movement, then get damaged again, etc!"
"Okay that's odd.. and the other poison?"
"Deals damage when the enemy uses a skill that costs 4 AP or more"
"How do I even know what skills the enemy has?"
"You don't really. You just put it on an enemy and hope for the best! I guess you might eventually start remembering that it works on a few!"
".... I'll just go for Earth and Water..."

0 0
Score : 138

Hi everyone! Overall i think that the changes are really great, but i feel like we need some way to move enemies...the area of aoe skills is pretty small, and most of the time enemies are not so close together. Sure, with some positioner in team it becomes way easier, but i think that a little pushing skill could work without making the class unbalanced! (weight down for example has no secondary effect, maybe it can push or pull targets with prey, or something like that).

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Score : 3627

Positioning is a weakness of the ouginak class, just like healing is for xelors, so I doubt they will get positioning spells, considering their great damage and ability to lock down enemies with MP removal.
They already have great mobility with rupture, hunter, tracking and if you really want a pull you can just take Mass charm.

1 -1
Score : -76

you literally ruined my favourite class, i just finished 1 day ago my melee/single target set spending so much time and money and then i see that you want us to use area mastery. maybe fits and starts was too strong. but why destroying his unreducible damage without wp too so the boowolf cant reply it too? i was so happy and fine with the old one, maybe just nerf fits and start but not changing all the class. i spent so much time to have this set with runes too and now i see that its' all aoe. im not a high level player that can get a new build instantly. if you really want to rework ougi do that but with the 3 final spells of the branches, but it should be always a st dmg dealer not an area dmg dealer...you want ouginak to have a deepen identity as a hunter but you put his damage on aoe?? Why!! hope you answere me and fix all this..
 

2 -1
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Score : 3627

You can still play him as melee ST, water branch is still strong and rucus can do good turn 1 combos, while sweeping will be good for consistent damage output at max furry, maybe even use pugnancy?

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Score : 877
5 0
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Score : -76

yeah it's so bad btw, the new update is gonna make ougi useless af thanks.

1 -2
Score : 216

congratulations!! you just kill the classsmile

1 -3
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Score : 3627

The mandatory comment of every single rework

2 -3
Score : -76

they defintively did . no point why doing this

0 -3
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Hello, it's feedback time.

Big Dog

  • Becomes 1 - 3 non-modifiable range

Pugnacity
  • The poison last 2 turns instead of 1, so it can get activated twice
  • At level 200 of the skill the base damage it’s 92, it also applies 92 levels of poison




About the elemental skills, it is likely that we'll modify Crosshatch and Bone-Breaker in some way.

We are also trying to make the gameplay of Tracking a little bit trickier, here are some ideas that we got in mind for it:

Allowing to use Tracking on an ally, to teleport an enemy in front on an ally at the start of his (the enemy)'s turn.
Allowing to use Tracking on the Ouginak itself, to teleport an enemy in front of the Ouginak at the start of his turn. It’s also possible to use it to reposition an enemy who is already at close combat (if the Ouginak changes his direction before the end of his turn to not to face an enemy).
If Tracker is used on the Bow wow it will immediatly teleport him, making him face the tracked. This would allow to use in a more effective way the skill Ruckus.



I will now give some explanations about the most frequent suggestions.

It’s unlikely that Prey gets changed, in addition it’s less unlikely that Prey gets new effects, because of these 3 reasons:
  1. Unlocking a complementary effect on a target that has Prey increases the description of the spell, but also its uses. Prey can then be seen (rightly) as a simple cost in PW to unlock a number of side effects. It's sympathetically themed, but it's even nicer to just have these side effects naturally present on the spells.
  2. Given the potential power of Prey, adding Prey-related effects on spells would surely be too strong.
  3. Prey revolves around a single target specialization (Ouginak hunts its Prey and traps it slowly but surely). Restricting the use of many spells to this one Prey pushes too much towards this specialization, and restrains the strategic potential of Ouginak, because it could not apply any effects of malus etc. on multiple targets simultaneously.



We don’t intend to change the poisons either.

The MP poison, thematically, is extremely powerful on a class like Ouginak. When an opponent flees the contact of the Ouginak, that opponent actually counters the ouginak. Prey can be unbewitched. Since the Ouginak is a Melee class, he needs to take some extra effort to reach his target again, which sometimes results in a loss of damage.

It's entirely intended.

That's why it has tools such as MP removal, stabilization, or tracking. If Ouginak had a strong or significant PM poison, then it would mean that Ouginak is rewarded for suffering a counter in its weakness. It's totally illogical and unbalanced. Imagine a gameplay where to avoid some damage, you must flee, but in this case you take more damage. To be honest, I'm already surprised it has such a tool.

The AP poison is interesting and rewards the knowledge of his opponent, including his tendency to use certain spells. We do not wish to change it either.

To revalue poisons, there are other ways to explore, but it is a tool. This is not meant to be a specialization at all times, as the fights are short and intense. We know that poison abilities can be easily dodged, for example, if an ally kills a poisoned enemy before he or she plays, or with some gameplays of monsters that counter them. It's these kinds of situations that help make them unviable in the eyes of the players. Moreover, if we listened to some feedback, poisons should become a way to do more direct damage.

Ideally, in a strategic game like this one, we should be able to identify targets that are vulnerable to poisons. One can imagine enemies with strong direct damage reductions, or damage reflections / immunity / armor effects that can be bypassed by poisons or glyphs. It is a long process, which requires changing existing content and producing new ones, but in the long run we expect to do so. Or at least get closer to it more and more.



Siu.
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Score : 45

 

[Ankama]WAKFU-Prod|2019-09-02 14:13:56
  1. Prey revolves around a single target specialization (Ouginak hunts its Prey and traps it slowly but surely). Restricting the use of many spells to this one Prey pushes too much towards this specialization, and restrains the strategic potential of Ouginak, because it could not apply any effects of malus etc. on multiple targets simultaneously.

 

Mmmh since so many spells are now area instead of single target, I guess that's the best option. 

Can't wait to try all these new changes on the beta server!
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Score : -76

and for low lvl players that had already done a single target melee set who cares right? genious
 

0 -1
Score : -9

I think ouginak identity is not the aoe thing, the ouginak is an hunter and an hunter preys one entity at time, you are just doing something illogical. Btw the poison system sucks and is too slow or easy to counter, the earth spells now are just useless in terms of dmg, you can still use them to generate armor. i doesn't saw the water spells but i think they still ok for their role in ouginak deck. In conclusion i think the class should go for an st target and not an aoe

2 -3
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Score : -76

that's the complete version of what i mean. DO NOT RUIN OUGINAK PLEASE
 

0 -1
Score : 35

OUGINAK Die, tnx Ankama. it was my main character... but now game over for me. I do not have time and energy, after the changes, leveling and dress other characters

0 -4
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Score : 138

What a nice group of haters we have here! Guys, most of the main changes (also changes that helps who want to stay single target) aren't even in the beta, and you're already saying that the class is dead...first of all, who said that a hunter must be single target? i don't see many srams complaining about an assassin have area damage. Moreover, you really aren't tired of spamming the same 3 skills all the time? To make this class interesting changes have to be done, and for now they're doing a great job!  Don't you like them? Fine, make some constructive comment, instead of saying "bruh ougi is ded!1", because being too lazy to learn a new class is not a good reason.

6 -1
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Score : 1018

Oof

Thanks Jafew, you pretty much said in short terms everything that I was thinking about those comments.
 

​​​​​​​Fukumoto

2 -1
Score : 2342

For me it's interesting change... they remove WP system (little) sooo ok smile 

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Score : 1018

Yeah I think it's really interesting too..
I never planned to lvl up to 200 the old ougi because it wasn't an interesting class for me, but now I'm really thinking about it smile

Waiting for the Beta update so I can test all of it possible builds~


Fukumoto

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