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Devblog: Class Changes in 2020

By [Ankama]WAKFU - ADMINISTRATOR - December 13, 2019, 16:00:00
DevTracker AnkaTracker
Reactions 187
Score : -8

First, the Sadida Kingdom update and the enchanting system update have inspired a lot of confidence.

To Siu/Ankama
We already have the AP damage mechanic with aging+any ap removal spell. That you want to continue that mechanic puts me at ease to a degree. Plus if that mechanic is taken out of air or given to other elements I would be even happier. Water/Fire Xelor for life!

I don't think the idea around Xelor changes are super fleshed out right now, because I mainly get the idea that aside from what you want to do with the dial, how you want to implement the slowdown mechanic/debuff is still being figured out. I think based on what you said the best tactic for me to take is to try and develop thoughtful understanding of the PTR changes when they are released. Then give the best feedback to ensure that I just enjoy playing the class post change.

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Score : 6690
  • The damage capabilities of the class should stay very good, although it will need to use more spells.

What does that even mean?​​​​​​ Does that mean to achieve 250 base damage (2 Hand, at 125 base damage each, 5AP per cast), meaning 25DMG/AP,

But now one must do theoretically
1. Five Hand at 50 base damage, 2AP per cast each, still 25DMG/AP  OR
2. Two Hand at 75 base damage, 5AP per cast each, plus a few more additional spells cast, which generally lower the DMG/AP ratio

Because for No.2 Case, that's just straight up damage Nerf. That said, they're both technically Nerfs, Xelor are already struggling as they are now with the number of spells they need to cast in order achieve same effects as most class. Since we're on the topic of Damage, take Xelor's damage output for example, currently its at the mercy of Rollback to keep their damage output at least above sub-par, on top of needing additional spell cast to consume the Rollback charges (while paying attention to the number of Rollback charges available for maximum efficiency) before being able to use it. Yes, lots of on-the-spot mental math calculation, map awareness, decision making, all under 30 seconds.

Even if you did somehow increase Xelor base AP, being the Time Mage, to balance out the below sub-par base damage. That's still generally a nerf, some monster / boss mechanics penalize spell casting, and AP used during a turn via Poison. Salad Grozepin Dungeon for example, you suffer heavy damage from every AP / MP used. A typical Xelor uses about 20AP per turn in order to achieve the same damage output of a 12AP combo from most damage class. This change nerf will only further escalate the disadvantage. Another example would the early game Fire Sheep Magmog Ultimate Boss, a Random Stun causes every spell cast to cost additional 2AP. Meaning, currently Xelor could cast 2 Xelor Punishment at the cost of 14AP in total to achieve 228 Damage. But breaking that Two 5AP cast into Five 2AP micro cast, would mean Xelor will need 20AP to achieve the same 228 Damage Output.

Please tread carefully, raw surface number changes that may seem appealing at first, isn't everything, there's a lot more gameplay factors including mechanics from other parts of the game which may influence the "feel" of a class, from being great, to breaking and being a trash class, forcing Class Change or Straight up Rage Quit.

Cheers.
- Reg
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Score : 4301

This is one of the fears I have.. I always said that Xelors are real gamblers, having a high Rollback is what dictates your damage and you become a slave of the clock.. What you said is a fact, Xelors need a high rollback and about 16~20AP to do the same damage as a, let's say, Iop with 12AP (I know that because I have both and I used to play them back to back)..

Like I said on my own comment, I feel like this was done with PvP in mind and in PvE that will be just a straight up nerf.. Like they are boxing Xelors into that debuffer role in which their damage will be "meh" but, hey! At least you remove -4AP from your enemy!

In my case I placed this game on hold since the Enchanting System update but was still lurking here for news and see if the Xelor gets some love, now I see this revamp and depending of the results I will completely hang this game forever or give it another try.

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Ok for water branch but if they want to do this change they gotta give me transmutations because i'm a Endgame foggernaut with +3000ele in fire and earth and i'm not gonna farm just because they change the class. 
It's like building a character tank but then he becomes a DPS and you have to change the whole build and elements. So free transmutations or the wakfu's community is gonna decrease and Ankama will lose a lot of endgame players and by that god booster. Up to you.

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They're not gonna remove any of the branches tho, you kan keep being an earth fire fogger even if they add a new element

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I'm definitely voting for the new Water branch on the Foggernaut, with the capability to go into 'Stasis' mode. That way you'll end up seeing more variety for Foggernauts without feeling that Stasis spells are neccesary to pick.
Then again, this was my suggestion anyway, I'm happy to see it has been picked up as an idea! biggrin

As for classes I'd like to see an example of for their new passives:
- Sadida
- Osamodas
- Rogue
- Ecaflip
- Ouginak

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I have quit this game since the new enchanting mechanic but I've been keeping tabs on the news just in case I see something that might inspire me to come back and this news intrigue me as such..

Xelor: I am curious and excited for the Xelor changes but, at the same time, worried and scared.. I have an itch that this revamp was made with PvP in mind and PvE Xelors like me will end up receiving the sharp end of the stick but I can, and wish, to be wrong.

Feca: I expected this to happen and, frankly, took long enough.. Fecas are such a must in this game it's ridiculous but I always wanted to make a DD Feca and now looks like I can try, if it will be viable or not, we'll see.

Fogger: I always wanted this class to get a revamp.. In the current state there's no reason to use Fire/Earth spells when you can just Stasis all the way (unless you're tank Fogger) and that always made the class boring to me but since I don't have experience with Foggers I can't say if that's good or bad.

Osamoda: Freaking FINALLY! I always been saying that Osas need to have a staple summon, sure, it's fun to capture new mobs but the viable ones are always the same, every time a new expansion comes with new mobs there's always one that is massively OP and get exploited to hell until it gets severely nerfed (cof cof Badgeroxx cof cof).

Masqueraiders: I.. Don't care about them enough to have an opinion.. Hey, at least I am honest!

As for my opinion on Force of Will.. It always felt redundant to me.. I mean, you remove AP/MP from the target, now his FoW increases which increases his ress so you don't AP/MP destroy him, fair but now he can use this built up FoW to destroy your AP/MP since this not only increases the ress but also the chance of removing AP/MP.. Get what I mean?

When the Xelor revamp comes around I might consider coming back if I find it interesting and fun but if it's another "First Enutrof Revamp" situation I am completely hanging this game.

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Miiiiky, it's already possible to make a viable - albeit you have to put in some work; it's expensive - DD/Support Feca. One of the ways you do it  is via Glyphs; since they now have high damage potential due to the "Elementor" passive, sublimations/runes (e.g. Ruin and Brutality) and even spells (Fecastopheles).

Albeit using a Feca's Glyphs to deal damage while being a support at the same time is viable, the main reason you don't see them running around is because you have to sit on enemie's face and lock them to be able to cause more consistent damage with your glyphs (since you will have to focus on melee/AoE equipment instead of melee/ST); however, that makes the Feca more vulnerable than a full Tank/Support Feca (that's the sacrifice you have to do if you want to do damage, I guess).

Another reason is the fact that It's much more easy and considerably less expensive to just make a full Tank/Support Feca. Since a Feca can't effectively take 3 roles at the same time.

(I could show you some pictures of the build if you want)

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Please revamp the Rogue class, with its current gameplay focused in bombs is slow, not worth and overall a pain to play.

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rogues main gimmick is booms, it's like asking elios portals or sadidas dolls are " slow, not worth and overall a pain to play" just because you couldn't master them doesn't mean it should be revamped :/

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ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

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Are we seriously nerfing Feca after 4-5 years of it trivializing other classes?

You guys released so much content that Feca trivialized that could have been special. Sigh, long over due. I would almost wanna come back for this. But we'll have to see the changes. Because the "use Feca's buffs to burst bosses during their vulnerable states" is horrible and reduces the amount of viable strategies out there. 

I think I'd like to see more defensive options out of Feca than Offensive, because current feca is either protecting you completely with perfect armor or buffing you to kill. .I personally would love to see them stripped of their offensive buffs and given far more DD and defensive buffs, 

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Dok-Q|2019-12-19 17:40:56
When they say "more spells," given the next line about "always casting the same 2-3 spells," it sounds a lot more like they're talking about combos and synergies- more different spells, not total count. Like a version of the Aging / Freezing / Hydrand mechanics that is more consistent and has more different ways to interact with it.

Basically, needing to waste more time casting a lot more spells just to achieve the same amount of damage output as what most damage class could do with much less spells. Wow, such Quality of Life Improvement. Reg pointed out that some mob mechanics penalizes class that requires to cast a lot of spells, it's bad as it is now for Xelor, how is this change going to improve that experience in any way aside from making it much worst that it's current state.
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That's not what he said tho? He said that there would be casting diferent damage spells in diferent occasions, not casting a cheaper spell more times.

Also just as there are mobs who penalise multiple smaller hits, there are also mobs that incentivise it (like cracklers)

2 -6
Score : 5607

 

MiiiiKy|2019-12-18 16:24:38
I have quit this game since the new enchanting mechanic but I've been keeping tabs on the news just in case I see something that might inspire me to come back and this news intrigue me as such..

Xelor: I am curious and excited for the Xelor changes but, at the same time, worried and scared.. I have an itch that this revamp was made with PvP in mind and PvE Xelors like me will end up receiving the sharp end of the stick but I can, and wish, to be wrong.
 ...

They said thy always develop the game with PvM in mind, PvP is secondary, but they might add some PvP passives.
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Score : 33

PLEASE STOP with the elemental stigmas.

Fire does not have to be dmg for all classes.
Air does not have to be mobility.
Water does not have to be healing.
Earth does not have to be tankiness.

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Score : 8879

 

KentTheFourth|2019-12-21 16:08:57
PLEASE STOP with the elemental stigmas.

Fire does not have to be dmg for all classes.
Air does not have to be mobility.
Water does not have to be healing.
Earth does not have to be tankiness.

They dont do it all the time though??
And even if they did, it just how the elements work in the game, why is THAT the thing you choose to complain about?

Rogue: Earth branch isnt tankiness at all, Mobility is in both Air and Earth branches
Xelor: Water branch isnt healing
Osa: Air Branch is DPS branch in most cases, unless you play AoE, in whichcase fire is
Cra: Earth branch is DPS
Sram: Air is DPS, Fire is Poison
Enu: Water and Earth are DPS
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Score : -2395

 

KentTheFourth|2019-12-21 16:08:57
PLEASE STOP with the elemental stigmas.

Fire does not have to be dmg for all classes.
Air does not have to be mobility.
Water does not have to be healing.
Earth does not have to be tankiness

i wishd to agree  what you said but it must be because there is no gears to resist and fit some (most) classes from 4  elements.
Classes have got unbalanced ranges and mechanics with their elements mostly when you match them and water must be a heal based element with less attack power so i can increase my reesist against other 3 elements.
Ankama just want to create a unique game than original rpg modes. 
i can only respect it even you dont BUT that doesnt mean i will always be happy with their character ideas or not.i must tell my ideas too at some points and  GMs or community must respect my ideas even it looks like a bit rude or rubbish ,this forum is for it. 

 
Suspect--|2019-12-21 16:38:59
 They dont do it all the time though??And even if they did, it just how the elements work in the game, why is THAT the thing you choose to complain about?

Rogue: Earth branch isnt tankiness at all, Mobility is in both Air and Earth branches
Xelor: Water branch isnt healing
Osa: Air Branch is DPS branch in most cases, unless you play AoE, in whichcase fire is
Cra: Earth branch is DPS
Sram: Air is DPS, Fire is Poison
Enu: Water and Earth are DPS

yes ,this why i called this class totaly broken because Ankama's limit.. 
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Score : 344

Please don't destroy Osamodas like this...  I know the class is in need of a rework, but please, PLEASE do not remove one of the things that makes it feel unique.  I don't care if I can change the appearance of my mechanically generic summon, exploring zones and looking for new enemies who's moves and unique features made them interesting to play and experiment with.  It kept the class interesting and dynamic as I leveled up.  If you make the summon mechanically generic it will suck so much out of the class, and combats will feel even more repetitive and boring.  Please, look, I understand it's...  A lot of work, but do you really add new monsters to this game THAT often, that you can't possibly balance them for player use?  Why not do that instead of putting in a HUGE amount of time and effort to completely change how summoning works?  If not, I honestly would rather you do nothing with this class, please...  Dramatics aside, the other class changes seem fine, Foggernaut and Xelor in particular could really benefit, though I'm on the fence about Feca.  It doesn't seem super duper needed, but the change doesn't sound bad.  I personally would enjoy being able to play a more support-focused Feca that can keep other front-liners from getting killed.

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New 20 passive skill in new 2020 year? Well, 2 more days to go...

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They said IN 2020 not AT 2020

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Just... why osa?
I understand why changing Xelor and Feca, but Osa? 
And good god, i don't even wanna talk about my Steamer, don't even know if the build i was working on is even worthwile now, and it takes time to make/remake a whole ass build.
Don't even know if i should continue my old characters or just create new ones, 'cause i'm 100% confused rn

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I'd say because all osamodas' passives are a mess, the spells have no elemental identity and the summon mechanic is outdated and a pain to upkeep

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Score : -22

Im glad I stoped playing... these nerfs on my 3 classes makes it ridiculous!

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Score : 4558

Class change scrolls plz. 

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Will you guys REALLY just kill osamodas like that tho? lmaooo
It's so stupid it started to be funny how fucked up this is...

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Score : 1395

 

Hearttyace|2019-12-31 12:40:47
Wakfu's Class system is the only thing good about the game. Your actual problem is models, which (Mainly because of how the game is designed) is fixed if they just release costumes for classes.

MMOs standard would have classes have one role, FFXIV has 1 role per class (Exception for one class that they really regret ),  WoW isn't spectacularly different either, the specs change it a bit.  But for the most part, Classes are expected in certain roles.

Wakfu did do a lot to go modern though, there were  almost no tanks pre Feca second revamp. All classes were pretty much DPS classes, there were no cooldowns, healer. had no heal resist I mean before Feca was the strongest AoE, professions had one use and that was only there if you maxed it out. IMO it was a worst time and a balance nightmare. You were either playing the strongest class or gimping yourself.

Alright get this, What if I told you WoW and FFXIV made less than Maplestory year over year.(Google it if you don't believe  me) , There was also a point when Blade and Soul did too, There is no standard, being a wow clone isn't standard. but making something modern does improve quality.

On topic though: Yes, it's really annoying when they restrict themselves elements performing roles Reduces creativity, now if they restricted type of mechanics per element that'd be more interesting. Happens  every so often and we get really great classes from it, (Air Iop is pretty cool, Tank Iop is not)


I would really like to seriously consider your opinion but by comparing Wakfu to MMORPGs that belong to another genere like FFXIV and WoW you make it very difficult. Btw, I think that releasing a new Wakfu every year it could be the winner move for Ankama, there's a new PES and FIFA every year and this keep high standards and neverending graphic improvement with a huge player base. Since these games are succesful evidently Ankama needs to do the same.

Trolling aside, is true that the current Wakfu needs real balance among their classes.
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Aw man, I JUST started playing wakfu and chose to play a xelor c': whyyyyy

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Nerf is coming.

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