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Spell System Revamp

By #[Dy7] - ANKAMA - May 21, 2015, 15:00:00
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Score : 251

I understand all of those things. You guys aren't thinking outside the box, because up until now you haven't had to. This is another reason I brought up dofus. In dofus, you can't just bring a bunch of high lvls to high lvl content and win using a few of your utility spells to save people on death glyphs, etc... In dofus, the success of the group is based entirely on preparing before the boss and bringing the correct classes who have the correct builds with the correct spells leveled. It's much more organized and challenging than even the highest level content on wakfu. What you're complaining about is not being able to win the same way that you've been winning NOW. Truthfully, I'm excited that most people will die to these high lvl contents because they aren't adapting because those of us who do adapt, drop our mains to bring alts for utility, to bring utility based classes like panda, Eni, and sacrier will dominate the market board once again. It's not about YOUR class being so versatile, it's about your GROUP being versatile and that seems to be what everyone is having a problem grasping. While this concept may be new to wakfu, dofus players know and understand this system well and we don't find this change threatening. I'm just trying to show you that yes, it sucks because Ankama gave far too much freedom out for some time, but completely honest? It led to content coming down to who has the most hp, most damage, and most resist. That's true EVEN MORE SO in the high lvl content. Also, not sure if you guys have noticed, but my sram has 1000 more base hp in beta too, so hp scaling seems to have been improved.

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Score : 17864

So... Why does Wakfu have to change to be more like Dofus then? I thought they were different games. And as far as I know, we have plenty of preparation for big fights as well. Not every class build can do HC Robowl or Steel Beak. I find it very unlikely for a gobgob Osamodas (for example) to be even remotely useful in either of those fights.

Dofus also doesn't have this new Deck system implemented. From what I've heard, you can max out whichever spells you want and have no limitations as to which spells you want to use in a fight.

Why can't the game just be designed around the current system? Why must we revamp the way the game is played yet again? I don't want to have to make 3 different classes in order to experience all the content in the game (like they do in Dofus), no class should ever be shut out of any content.

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Score : 13934
-Revoke|2015-05-23 21:49:37
It's not about YOUR class being so versatile, it's about your GROUP being versatile and that seems to be what everyone is having a problem grasping.

I agree. I'm hoping this deck system will allow players to setup and fill a role needed within their party.

-Revoke|2015-05-23 21:49:37
It led to content coming down to who has the most hp, most damage, and most resist. That's true EVEN MORE SO in the high lvl content.

I think this is incorrect. There has never been encounters that required teams to be so reliant on stats in Wakfu. Players that claim this tend to be poor at formulating strategies imo. Tanks needed some high lock and defense in a few situations but that's all. Gameplay that requires certain classes or builds does nothing but exclude players. Battles should require a few roles to complete and no matter what class build you choose it should be capable of filling one of those roles. Otherwise the alternative only suits Ankama and their ogrine respec/class change scroll sales.

SSBKewkky|2015-05-23 22:18:43
Why can't the game just be designed around the current system? Why must we revamp the way the game is played yet again? I don't want to have to make 3 different classes in order to experience all the content in the game (like they do in Dofus), no class should ever be shut out of any content.

I ultimately agree with this as well. Wakfu just keeps changing and whatever vision or goals Ankama are moving towards completely escapes me.
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Score : -3047

as someone has previously stated, this update brings classes some unique role based on their current build, if you want to have a ranged attack, teleport and push, which are neseccary for hc vertox you can just take them, if you want to go with your brutish pure-damage based build you can go with that one instead if you are certain you will not need to use your utilities. as the game is now, there are no roles apart from locker and healer because all srams have their brutish damage, traps, and supreme map control at he same time (i understand your rage, kewkky, it feels good to be master of everything). even after this update you will still be able to play the class to the fullest, just you will need to think more deeply about next fight, not rush in head-on with only biggest damage spells in your deck.

not speaking strictly about sram, i think what i said fits most classes pretty well. 

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Score : 17864
blazakkhakabow|2015-05-23 23:06:15
as someone has previously stated, this update brings classes some unique role based on their current build, if you want to have a ranged attack, teleport and push, which are neseccary for hc vertox you can just take them, if you want to go with your brutish pure-damage based build you can go with that one instead if you are certain you will not need to use your utilities. as the game is now, there are no roles apart from locker and healer because all srams have their brutish damage, traps, and supreme map control at he same time (i understand your rage, kewkky, it feels good to be master of everything). even after this update you will still be able to play the class to the fullest, just you will need to think more deeply about next fight, not rush in head-on with only biggest damage spells in your deck.

not speaking strictly about sram, i think what i said fits most classes pretty well.
This doesn't "bring" unique builds though, it simply separates current builds into smaller builds whose purpose are 'specializations'.

Also, Srams can't heal others, or stabilize allies, or tank bosses (unless you count doubles, which only really have 3k hp and bosses have like 400+ dodge anyway), or give allies armor/AP, or mitigate damage... We're not a perfect jack-of-all-trades. We're a DPT and map manipulator class. We're definitely handy in lots of situations, but master of everything is pretty hyperbolic.
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Score : 9319

What Blaz said. There are no roles in a party now besides dmg dealers, healers and sometimes something else. Most people playing certain classes are the same and are using the same spells, there is no thinking about "how should I build my character?" anymore, because there is only one good way. Before, we at least had mono and dual builds, now we are slowly starting to change into "trip build or youre useless". We need uniqueness, so not every Iop is the same, not every Eni is the same and is using the same spells...

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Score : 120
Rokugatsu|2015-05-23 23:12:11
Most people playing certain classes are the same and are using the same spells, there is no thinking about "how should I build my character?" anymore, because there is only one good way. Before, we at least had mono and dual builds, now we are slowly starting to change into "trip build or youre useless". We need uniqueness, so not every Iop is the same, not every Eni is the same and is using the same spells...

And after the patch, that's probably not going to change. If you think it will make that big an impact, I'm afraid you'll be in for a rude awakening. There will still be top builds and people will still want you to have them, you'll just have less options when you're solo and what people want you for in groups will be even more narrow depending on your class.

I don't see that as a plus.
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Score : -3047

well yeah, my bad about saying master of everything, but now you kind-of have to choose between supreme map control and insane damage unless you are trap-kind of-sram. what i meant to say that sram map control will no longer be as a racial passive but more of a build thing.

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Score : 132

Its true, my HP has also gone up... level 175 Sadida with 6600 on live now has 8333 HP on beta, however the resist went down by -77 so in a way, that is a balance.

I am not hating the system -- I am still evaluating it, and because Sadida has changed EVERY SINGLE SPELL, my feelings toward the spell system are not the same after I played around with the beta. But at the same time I don't think that its the right design yet when it comes to utility spells.

What I would like to see is another section for utility spells only that allows you to use them in combat, but does not allow you to gain spell xp and limits their ability to level 1 stats. Basically make it so that its unlocked at level 50, 100 and 150 (3 spaces total). Or even 2 available unlocked at 100 and 200.

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Score : 93
-Revoke|2015-05-23 21:49:37
I understand all of those things. You guys aren't thinking outside the box, because up until now you haven't had to. This is another reason I brought up dofus. In dofus, you can't just bring a bunch of high lvls to high lvl content and win using a few of your utility spells to save people on death glyphs, etc... In dofus, the success of the group is based entirely on preparing before the boss and bringing the correct classes who have the correct builds with the correct spells leveled. It's much more organized and challenging than even the highest level content on wakfu. What you're complaining about is not being able to win the same way that you've been winning NOW. Truthfully, I'm excited that most people will die to these high lvl contents because they aren't adapting because those of us who do adapt, drop our mains to bring alts for utility, to bring utility based classes like panda, Eni, and sacrier will dominate the market board once again. It's not about YOUR class being so versatile, it's about your GROUP being versatile and that seems to be what everyone is having a problem grasping. While this concept may be new to wakfu, dofus players know and understand this system well and we don't find this change threatening. I'm just trying to show you that yes, it sucks because Ankama gave far too much freedom out for some time, but completely honest? It led to content coming down to who has the most hp, most damage, and most resist. That's true EVEN MORE SO in the high lvl content. Also, not sure if you guys have noticed, but my sram has 1000 more base hp in beta too, so hp scaling seems to have been improved.
I was just reading but... WTF!!?. You just don't even know the basics of sacrier class and dare to say that. Sacriers will dissapear with this revamp, right now they're below average in every aspect, if you apply limits to their versatility they're as good as punchbags and I'm pretty sure nobody will want them in the team.
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Score : 17864
blazakkhakabow|2015-05-23 23:32:26
well yeah, my bad about saying master of everything, but now you kind-of have to choose between supreme map control and insane damage unless you are trap-kind of-sram. what i meant to say that sram map control will no longer be as a racial passive but more of a build thing.
They could've just added a 4th spell tree for each class and extra actives and passives (which, judging by the work put into changing spells/actives/passives for every single class, it would've taken the same amount of time), while not having to limit us to "decks". Passives could've improved certain spells to work better in order to promote build diversity instead of limiting us to using a max of 11-12 spells and actives total per fight. With a bigger pool of actives and passives (and perhaps spells), build diversity would actually be a real thing, and no one would be complaining about limitations.
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Score : -3047
Vawokil|2015-05-23 23:50:20
-Revoke|2015-05-23 21:49:37
I understand all of those things. You guys aren't thinking outside the box, because up until now you haven't had to. This is another reason I brought up dofus. In dofus, you can't just bring a bunch of high lvls to high lvl content and win using a few of your utility spells to save people on death glyphs, etc... In dofus, the success of the group is based entirely on preparing before the boss and bringing the correct classes who have the correct builds with the correct spells leveled. It's much more organized and challenging than even the highest level content on wakfu. What you're complaining about is not being able to win the same way that you've been winning NOW. Truthfully, I'm excited that most people will die to these high lvl contents because they aren't adapting because those of us who do adapt, drop our mains to bring alts for utility, to bring utility based classes like panda, Eni, and sacrier will dominate the market board once again. It's not about YOUR class being so versatile, it's about your GROUP being versatile and that seems to be what everyone is having a problem grasping. While this concept may be new to wakfu, dofus players know and understand this system well and we don't find this change threatening. I'm just trying to show you that yes, it sucks because Ankama gave far too much freedom out for some time, but completely honest? It led to content coming down to who has the most hp, most damage, and most resist. That's true EVEN MORE SO in the high lvl content. Also, not sure if you guys have noticed, but my sram has 1000 more base hp in beta too, so hp scaling seems to have been improved.
I was just reading but... WTF!!?. You just don't even know the basics of sacrier class and dare to say that. Sacriers will dissapear with this revamp, right now they're below average in every aspect, if you apply limits to their versatility they're as good as punchbags and I'm pretty sure nobody will want them in the team.
i can say only that you are incredibly wrong. only 3-element tank build sacrier will suffer, because he will use spells from all his branches + all 5 actives,other builds will only gain advantage because they will be allowed to pick extra spells to have more versitality in combat.

im already seeing the stable damage-dealer build on air fire sacrier, also even stable tri element tank build.
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Score : 408

honestly, I'm a bit disappointed about this new system. I'm not sure this will help us using our spells at their "maximum levels" and so on... I don't know what to think. also, I don't like the fact you're always changing everything in the game, it's not that easy to learn how to play from the beginning every time you change something, it's quite frustrating in truth, it takes time to understand the "new game mode".
why can't you leave the game as it already is?? it's awesome the way it is, trust me!!

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Score : -3047

both of said builds don't even exist on this version we are playing now (i see it as in many ways inferior to the new one)

it will be much more enjoyable after this revamp, current fights seem insanely boring in comparison to post-revamp ones, to be honest. everything just seems too easy (yes, im a sram) . also there are no cool passives that buff traps, so im waiting for the sram change too, not only for the revamp itself.

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Score : 2840

Its like people don't understand that you can spec a character for a specific role right now. Without this restrictive system.  

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Score : 17864
blazakkhakabow|2015-05-24 00:21:47
both of said builds don't even exist on this version we are playing now (i see it as in many ways inferior to the new one)

it will be much more enjoyable after this revamp, current fights seem insanely boring in comparison to post-revamp ones, to be honest. everything just seems too easy (yes, im a sram) . also there are no cool passives that buff traps, so im waiting for the sram change too, not only for the revamp itself.
But... The revamp is pretty much what we can do right now, except that we can only use 11 spells max.
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Score : 1865
Rokugatsu|2015-05-23 23:12:11
What Blaz said. There are no roles in a party now besides dmg dealers, healers and sometimes something else. Most people playing certain classes are the same and are using the same spells, there is no thinking about "how should I build my character?" anymore, because there is only one good way. Before, we at least had mono and dual builds, now we are slowly starting to change into "trip build or youre useless". We need uniqueness, so not every Iop is the same, not every Eni is the same and is using the same spells...
Dare I say it people will be more similar post deck then pre deck.

Also I can't help but think people that now think the game is boring(which it is but not for these reasons ) just see something new and think well this niche is going to feel new and exciting for a little.

But yeah, if we wanted to specialize our builds I'd do it from stats and equips. Classes are just more restricted now.

Also there are multiple roles, game just doesn't require enough strategy or tactics to use them. That's the problem.
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Score : 17864

Just throwing this out there, but according to beta, you can only max out 9 spells (look here for more info). I'm at lv175 and I don't get any more spell exp, no matter what spells I use, or what mobs I kill. So that whole idea of "I now have access to all my skills at cap level"? Not happening.

Also playing around on PvP assures me that now having tri gear will be mandatory for some classes, else you'll be gimping yourself out on damage spells if you choose to add utilities. And not adding in those utilities also gimps you out on positioning for damage. You end up losing either way with these limitations. I could only really have 3 attack spells when I chose to play as a Fire/Water Sram becauser air branch has all the useful positioning tools, and enemies were locking me left and right. Not having access to those spells made my double also useless, because now I could only push enemies 4 spaces away, after being forced to end my turn next to them due to being locked (by a high lock Iop or Feca). My damage up-front is pretty terrible as a class that depends on backstabs, so either way I chose I wasn't performing in any way on a good level. My only choice now is to go Fire/Air, Water/Air, or Tri.

So much for diversity in builds. I have to sacrifice my favorite playstyle, Fire/Water, in order to even have a chance in PvP/PvE. Air feels mandatory now. I just cannot comprehend how some people think this is a step up from the current system. All it needed was some additions to be perfect, not some limitations!

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Score : 4296

I'd also like to note, the difference between maxing spells and equally leveling some (Like how I did for orb armor and fecastaff at 120 while fecabo was 170 for feca) is gone. Maxing spells or bust.

That little bit of diversity is gone too. If you guys are complaining about the game not being hard anymore, these are the same people who caused that. Their remedy is to nerf us.

Seriously, if we said we didn't want the spell revamp. Would you stop? I mean all your work doesn't have to be for waste. for example, leaving those passives.

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Score : 7907

@ Kewk

I think thats more an issue with Sram's design - wily probably should have been made an active as backstabs are such an emphasis of the sram's playstyle.
You could proabably also squeeze larcenry and fear into one spell.. stand adjacent to a target and select a cell to push them to it, or select yourself / an enemy to activate larcenry's bootys mechanic. But that would push one active to some pretty extreme utility.

I already play a tri-sram so I guess I dont have to adapt all that much or at all really.. but ever since the revamp I always wanted to try a water build I may also consider a mono / dual water build because of the new larcenry and a trap build along with the normal backstab-tri build depending on how far I can push spell exp. So it should be fun for me c:
//

Personally I am starting to come around to the ideas of decks, I can see myself picking up a few decks within a single air/fire combo for my cra, but having an incredibly hard time whittling down the passives - there are too many I want D:
It does also really encourage the use of utility spells in space of damage spells - maybe too much atm, but I'll have to test it out. For example, using homing arrow for cheap beacon activation and as a damage spell instead 2-3 air spells on the hot bar. I think its fair to have to trade damage for utility and vice versa, but it does hurt some classes a lot more than others.

I can deck myself out for clearing dungeon rooms, or maybe add in something like retreat for faster (one or two) turn play outside of dungeons against small mob groups. For me, it will give me a chance to use some spells that I couldnt before because I had to get something more reliable.
This can also be done without having to buy anymore sets for myself.

Im not sure how I like the whole active / passive progression thing though - but its not something I've really witnessed so Im not sure if my observations are all that accurate. But with the new passives the gap between lvl 149 and 150 appears to be huge, with that one level increasing your final damage 15% or more in some cases. I'd like the passives to evolve more linearly.

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