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Smithmagic Revamp: Round 2

By November 21, 2013, 16:00:00
DevTracker
Reactions 142
Score : 554
Bocheii|2013-11-22 15:35:40
The new formula is:Item level * Rune level * rarity coefficient * 30 kamasThe rarity coefficient equals: Common item: 0.2 Normal item: 0.4 Rare item: 0.6 Mythical item: 0.8 Legendary item: 1
not a good idea

item lvl 100* 110 rune *1 *30 kamas = 330.000 Kama cost

for amara is this to high

for amara is 100.000 kama cost maximum perfect

your must the kama market per server calculate

here my formula

Item lvl * Rune lvl * rarity coefficent* 30 kamas~ Kama market difference from amara to Remington (Remington to Nox, Nox to Aerafal etc)

example

Item lvl 100 * Rune lvl 100 * rarity coefficent 0,8*30 kamas / 30% = 72.000 kamas for amara

example 2

Item lvl 100 *Rune lvl 100 * rarity oefficent 0.8 * 30 kamas / 50% = 120.000 Kamas for Amara
You got it all wrong. Rune level = It's class (i.e. 8, 11, 12, 15, etc.)
The correct math to rune an item of level 100 is : 100*10*1*30 which yields 30,000 kamas.
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Score : 171

It would be nice if hammers were added to specialize offensive damage bonuses, like turning general damage into dual element.

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Score : 1512

Well, I think they're trying to migrate some focus towrds smithmagic, it's already a gamble though. Increased hammer usage, with easier available stat reward.

Sadidas were revamped awhile ago to make elemental damage influence their summons, completely making CMC damage less efficient in relation to their actual water/damage/healing.

Nobody is benefiting from even having CMC as a combined stat anymore, besides people who were using primarily mechanics. Control gear isn't readily available, but finding a few points is unavoidable. The only ones who can utilize it past 6 for the majority of their abilities are the Osas, but it's still better than CMC, and pales in comparison to the damage builds that help support akward CMC/Control throw-ins.

I'd hate to see us lose what's been predominantly a common build, and only fluid hybrid build, to get these akward stats under control.

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Score : 13937
JerryDB|2013-11-22 01:05:35
  1. Do you think we need another kamas sink? haven worlds have cleaned me out nicely

This^

Well... It's a lot better than the last piece of total crap system. I'll reserve judgement on it until I can try it, but I see it as being a way to make the absurdly hardcore players richer/more powerful and everyone else... passable. -Madd

And this^

While I like the more controlled smithmagic system I'm concerned about the overall cost. I plan to start playing on Wakfu Asia when the time comes. As a new server how many YEARS will it take before players will have a few buildings in their Haven World and enough kamas to start putting runes into gear? I really hope the F2P server brings a large population.
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Score : 1035
erisolsprite|2013-11-22 15:42:25
It would be nice if hammers were added to specialize offensive damage bonuses, like turning general damage into dual element.

Great idea. The item cost calculator for the item revamp treated mono-elemental damage in e.g. earth as cheaper then the same number of all dmg. Runes should do the same thing.
So, using a water-air-hammer i can turn my 10% all dmg into e.g. 13% water-air-dmg.
Maybe resistance-runes could also be specialised by using a hammer.
This should only work with lvl 10 runes, because due to balancing-reasons, the amount probably won't be doubled when turning all element to duo-element and this would work around troublesome rounding-issues.

The same mechanic could be used to turn the PP/wisdom-rune into a rune which only provides one of the states. I really don't understand why PP and wisdom are always grouped in the last dev posts. Especially since _no other states are grouped_.

---------

It makes my stomach hurt that, while Sabi and Troyle heavily reponse to the Multiman and Smithmagic-thread, feedback in the WOP december-thread seems to be completely ignored by them. Looks like our feedback only gets heared when we talk about things they want us to give feedback too and the rest of the new content is already carved in stone and just presented to us, like in the old dev blogs.
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Score : 2042

Tbh I like the amendments to this revamp but I still have concerns. If you mage non hat, rings, weaps to dmg before update, you can end up with a set (lvl 100-149) that has +105 dmg instead of +60 dmg max. That's 75% more dmg that can be achieved through exotic mages, which people won't be able to do after the update. That's really unfair to people not able to mage their equipment now and, although this problem will disappear over time, will cause huge imbalances in the meanwhile. Personally I have some really nicely maged gear so I would be pretty disappointed if I only got back a generic amount of powders/runes but I'm not really sure how else they could do this. I guess they could give back 1 rune per slot and increase it to maybe 5 for a perf dmg/res or w/e and then maybe x2 for 1 dmg element the same as the item or x4 for 2 elements the same. eg if I had a fire/earth hat with 2 slots and 5 fire/air in the first slot and 3 fire/earth in the 2nd slot, I'd get (5x2) + (3x4) = 22 runes. That'd roughly give back the amount of runes invested.

The next thing I still dislike is the boring "gen dmg on hat, res on bp" etc. I'd much prefer something like this: you go to mage hat and you choose dmg (gen dmg, chance, int, str+int etc etc), res (similar to now + gen dmg etc) or support (maybe inc ch, control? idk, w/e really). When you add a rune you choose whether you want dmg, res or support. Then it randomly assigns a stat. You'd then use another rune/hammer to change the stat until you get what you want. After this you could upgrade the stat. If ankama are concerned about too much dmg/res, they could jsut simply implement a max cap of 100 dmg and 100 res from mages. This would keep a random aspect, allow ppl to customize, not hugely disrupt the current system and generally be more enjoyable for all.

Edit: oh and have different values for duel dmg than gen dmg/heal. Eg max of 15 cha, 15 fire/water or 10 gen dmg/heal

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Score : 12954
Remviel|2013-11-22 15:47:55
Well, I think they're trying to migrate some focus towrds smithmagic, it's already a gamble though. Increased hammer usage, with easier available stat reward.

Sadidas were revamped awhile ago to make elemental damage influence their summons, completely making CMC damage less efficient in relation to their actual water/damage/healing.

Nobody is benefiting from even having CMC as a combined stat anymore, besides people who were using primarily mechanics. Control gear isn't readily available, but finding a few points is unavoidable. The only ones who can utilize it past 6 for the majority of their abilities are the Osas, but it's still better than CMC, and pales in comparison to the damage builds that help support akward CMC/Control throw-ins.

I'd hate to see us lose what's been predominantly a common build, and only fluid hybrid build, to get these akward stats under control.
That's not true
It's like saying that Srams benefit more from +damage than from +backstab damage

Or that enutrofs benefit more from +damage than from +prospecting

If you saw how much damage % dolls get with control damage you notice how it goes higher than if we go purely with +damage. +damage % is still important (like how it is for enus) but prospecting is just as important to them. It's the same comparison.
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Score : 10498
Neneko88|2013-11-22 17:09:57
Remviel|2013-11-22 15:47:55
Well, I think they're trying to migrate some focus towrds smithmagic, it's already a gamble though. Increased hammer usage, with easier available stat reward.

Sadidas were revamped awhile ago to make elemental damage influence their summons, completely making CMC damage less efficient in relation to their actual water/damage/healing.

Nobody is benefiting from even having CMC as a combined stat anymore, besides people who were using primarily mechanics. Control gear isn't readily available, but finding a few points is unavoidable. The only ones who can utilize it past 6 for the majority of their abilities are the Osas, but it's still better than CMC, and pales in comparison to the damage builds that help support akward CMC/Control throw-ins.

I'd hate to see us lose what's been predominantly a common build, and only fluid hybrid build, to get these akward stats under control.
That's not true
It's like saying that Srams benefit more from +damage than from +backstab damage

Or that enutrofs benefit more from +damage than from +prospecting

If you saw how much damage % dolls get with control damage you notice how it goes higher than if we go purely with +damage. +damage % is still important (like how it is for enus) but prospecting is just as important to them. It's the same comparison.

Air dolls get 60% of a Sadida's air damage, but they get 100% of a Sadida's CMC damage. Hmm, wonder which is better! rolleyes 
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Score : 2803
Kikuihimonji|2013-11-22 13:23:39
But putting that aside. How about giving us the ability to add +Control to the gear? I would gladly swap some dmg% for a +1Control rune. I would like to be able to convert dmg% into control instead of cmc%. You can still manipulate the amount of possible Control the character can have if you will make "offensive" equipement as the only one with possible control bonus. Or it could be made for support equipement instead (wich would make you add posibility to have belt and boots with control). Please think about it and consider this change.
This system doesnt really support +control due to the progression style of the runes. If it were to be implemented, it would basically become a rune that gave you no bonuses until you reached lvl 10, at which it would give 1 control, and it would likely be a 'support' rune when implemented. Which doesnt seem like something ankama wants in their rune system, judging by how it's designed.

I also think that they are trying to keep from the early days of the Osa revamp where osas had tons of control really easily and were way overpowered. And there really isn't much a way to prevent that from happening again unless the runes themselves were only available as 'support' runes, but I doubt they will do that, since most classes need only like 2-3 more control beyond their current gear to reach their overpowered status, and boots and belts would offer 3 available slots.
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Score : 19183

My Rogue, Osas, Sadida and whatnot are all very excited characters for the CMC Rune hammers.

*total fanboy now*

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Score : 17900

Yeah, this rune revamp is sounding quite nice right now. I also absolutely and utterly hated this current system we have right now, this is a very welcome change from the sound of it.

I'm looking forward to the next patch! My hopes are up!

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Score : 19183

It'll be nice to kind of overcome the Dodge-stat nerf on my Enutrof, and mage the heck out of her boots/belts smile whee

But so expensive, sheesh

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Score : 3473

Not sure I like the overall nerf to my Enu's build... but I love it for my Osa. Would still rather be able to put any type of rune into a slot, though. The limiting is too severe, for most of the stats I care about.

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Score : 18193
Grou|2013-11-21 16:00:00

What will happen to the already embedded items?The equipments items that are already carrying runes will not be modified: they will become exotic objects.

In return it will not be possible to upgrade their runes (also considered as exotic).
So wait.. what you are saying is that we will have to destroy our current runes so that our gear does not become exotic, because if it does, we're screwed and would have to get full new sets of gear in order to upgrade our gear? That's balls. You're just wanting people to frantically buy your magic hammers from the shop in order to fix their gear to be runeless before the update. I call bullshnit on this, because it's literally the only reason you would do this instead of returning the runes like you did in the first revamp. Explain to me why it would go exotic, but do it in a logical, non-"it's too hard on the devs" way.

Also, I don't like the categories, and I don't like limitations being set to gear. Only helmets can have this, only boots can have that. Eff that. It's stupid.

Literally, the first rune go-round was a lot better than the current one, or this planned revamp. I do like the ability to upgrade runes with powders, but I hate that there are 9327489273492834 powders and it takes 928374928374 powders to upgrade something. I would rather drop awesome runes or craft awesome runes through dedication of farming resources or gear or whatever in order to craft the runes... but not six hundred million different powders that cramp the already full inventory problems for people that farm and craft extensively.

The way this is set up ruins builds based on having certain gears. You are limiting your players in very important ways, as you can see from all of the outcries against certain build types etc.

My suggestion?

Keep the hammers, keep the powders but change how they work/how much is needed/how inventory works with them (can't you make them go into the quest tab or something, jeez!), crushing gear is great too keep that but maybe sometimes instead of powders it just gives you a full rune randomly or idk?

BUT

Take away that crappy helms can have this, belts can have that bullcrap. It sucks. No one wants it. Why? Because it limits us even more than your random rune crap that's present now. You literally would have to base your build around certain gear limitations... I don't see what was so wrong with the first way rune magic worked?? You could go back to that system but add the hammers, powders, etc...

Why are you so reluctant to do that? People said they liked the first one better, when compared to the current one. But you're not really going to find people liking this future system if the first thing you do is limit what gear can get what rune. I know that gears in the first system were sort of like that with their different shaped rune slots... but... the rune slots were more efficient because of what went into them.

I don't know.. I just really feel like we're going to be screwed over.

Oh and let me once more mention, since you might have forgotten since the start of this long rant, that the only reason I feel that gears are going exotic is to get money from the players who will have to frantically buy hammers to clean out their gear before the revamp so they don't get gear marked as exotic.

Tell me that's not the reason why you're doing the exotic thing and I'll probably call BS all over again.
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Score : 2891

hmm skyrim has similar restrictions for enchanting equipment. Increased magic can only be attached to helmets, rings. Increased stamina to body armor and boots. Increased health enchantments only attach to amulets and body armor.

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Score : 2042

The new runes will replace old ones if you add to an exo mage so you don't need to destroy beforehand. Skyrim's restrictions are completely different to this. You still have a choice of what to add to each piece, not simply "dmg" or "res". I really wish someone from ankama would read my idea and just implement it as it solves all the issues involved with maging. To summarize:

  1. Give people new runes as compensation for old mages, based on the "quality" of the mage (eg more runes for 5 dmg of the right element). Exo mages will just mean unbalance.
  2. Allow people to choose dmg, res or support for all equip. Then dmg would consist of each element (cha, str etc), 2x dmg or gen dmg/heal. Limit gen dmg to 8 dmg as it's stronger than 1-2 element dmg
  3. Limit maging to 100 dmg/res (or even 75 or w/e), which would allow you to choose more dmg or more res but still limit you from going full dmg or res runes
Such a simple fix that would make everyone happy
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Score : 576

It doesn't make sense because the first post had things saying that exotic stuff was stuck as exotic stuff because of runes, and now they're saying that they aren't?

I seriously hope all of this information is being added to the front page because people are looking at the first post, not reading through hella comments looking for any changes.

I'm still probably going to wind up destroying the runes on my best set before the change. Why? Because Ankama. That's why. Because nothing ever really works how it's supposedly supposed to work, so...

Not buying the hammers with real money though.

Because if the current runed gear is just going to be able to have its runes changed, why change it to "exotic" at all?? Makes. No. Sense.

XjumperX|2013-11-24 00:38:20
The new runes will replace old ones if you add to an exo mage so you don't need to destroy beforehand. Skyrim's restrictions are completely different to this. You still have a choice of what to add to each piece, not simply "dmg" or "res". I really wish someone from ankama would read my idea and just implement it as it solves all the issues involved with maging. To summarize:

  1. Give people new runes as compensation for old mages, based on the "quality" of the mage (eg more runes for 5 dmg of the right element). Exo mages will just mean unbalance.
  2. Allow people to choose dmg, res or support for all equip. Then dmg would consist of each element (cha, str etc), 2x dmg or gen dmg/heal. Limit gen dmg to 8 dmg as it's stronger than 1-2 element dmg
  3. Limit maging to 100 dmg/res (or even 75 or w/e), which would allow you to choose more dmg or more res but still limit you from going full dmg or res runes
Such a simple fix that would make everyone happy
see, this was semi-nice and shiny of an idea until you said 'limit'... How is it fair to limit someone going full damage if that's what they want to do? I don't tell tanks not to stack themselves for full tanking capabilities, or support from doing things that totally force the best support route.. why should damage be any different? I just get so flustered sometimes...
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Score : 2042

I mentioned limited dmg/res because currently a lvl 100-149 set is already limited to 75 dmg or res. The new system would limit it to 60 dmg and 60 res but without restriction, you could get up to 120 dmg or res, which is a big increase and would probably result in ankama buffing monsters. You wouldn't have to add dmg to a tank either - you could just mage res and then have support runes on your other gear (lock, block maybe?). Tbh it's not that I want caps, it just seemed like that's the way ankama was going. It'd work equally as well if you just kept the runes we have atm (maybe add in gen dmg/CMC) but just allowed ppl to choose which they wanted. Basically I think 99% of people just want a maging system that allows you to customize their equip rather than a system that simply allows upgrading so everyone as the same gear and mages.

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Score : 25035

This whole damage improvement... cries for the higher amount of HP we should get per level and per each point invested on HP stat from distribution points. Some classes can already reach 500~600% dmg and they can 1 or 2 turn KO other players in pvp. I don't know if ankama's goal for 200lvl is to have players with 1000% damage bonus, but that is just ridiculous to the small amount of HP we get.

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Score : 85

OfcI didnt read all the comments, but from what i could get I feel i need to say something about the "Exotic" items thing:
People are missing the point of view of the players who already invested a TON of time and effort to get a set nearly perfectly runed.

"Forget the exotic thing... Just give them version3 runes based on the runes currently on the item", they say... Seriously, last time ankama did this i lost (and if you require proof let me know so i link the old thread) more then 6 perfetly runed vamp sets as well as tons of runes in stock when they implemented the version 2 of runes... and my compensation was an ammount of runes that allowed me to barely mage as i wanted 1 new set.

And now the issue is worse: for every rune currently in an item, god only knows how many others were wasted to get to that one. *It is simply impossible to compensate anyone with a decently maged set with a propper ammount of new runes*

And that is why I take my hat off for ankama. For the 1st time in a long while, THEY GOT IT RIGHT!
Let's simply not touch the existing gear of those who put an effort on it, mark them as exotic to make sure they dont participate in the new rune improvement system and also let them chose to migrate to the new rune system if they wish so!

THANK YOU, ANKAMA! I don't feel disrespected or like my efforts were in vain, this time!

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