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Summary: "Class Revamps" Livestream

By [Ankama]WAKFU - ADMINISTRATOR - November 05, 2020, 19:24:31
AnkaTracker

Preamble


This year we have completed three complete classes revamps, as well as some more or less minor balancing for other classes, in addition to the new content.

As we announced at the end of 2019, we think that the Xelor and Osamodas still need to be revamped. In terms of class balance, these two projects are still our priorities.

I have two pieces of news on that matter and it is better to announce them to you immediately:
  • The next class rework will be the Xelor,
  • The Xelor revamp will not arrive in December.

Following their arrival in Beta, there is quite a lot of adjustment work on the classes to be done, and we want to change our way of working a little bit in order to open the discussions on our concepts much earlier.

This could take the form of earlier and less regular Beta updates, so that we can take the time to work with your feedbacks.

That doesn't mean there won't be anything in December and we will discuss it through this live.
  

Foggernaut


This revamp is accomplished on several points, including the offtank side and the diversity of builds, but players tell us that there are some areas of improvement for the class.

It is difficult to maintain Overheat or High pressure states in certain situations: we will provide a solution to this so that it is less punitive.

I think it's necessary to review the identity of the spells in order for some spells to be more pronounced, unique, with stronger effects.

The distance path is a bit simple too, there's a way to better exploit the global gameplay implemented through the passives... (We're currently preparing a series of improvements that you'll be able to discover in the next Beta).
  

Feca


We are aware that part of the community has not met the role of the old Feca in the new one.

From our point of view, there are still some tools that are not very well balanced but apart from some values that need to be reviewed, it remains a successful class on several points.

If we had to think about deepening one aspect of the class, it would probably be the tank gameplay, which is a bit lacking. You'll find some improvements in the Beta of patch 1.70.
  

Masqueraider


The revamp has deepened the mechanics of the Masqueraider, and to date we have no answers to offer in terms of improving it. For the moment we will only adjust some values for the December patch.
  

Indirect damages


We have always planned to standardize indirect damages. It is a long project that impacts many things. Nevertheless, we have developed technical improvements to go in this direction.
  • Poisons and other states can take the critical damages.
  • New characteristic "Indirect damage inflicted" to effectively visualize your current character bonuses.

At this stage, we cannot guarantee that these improvements will happen for the 1.70 patch. In fact, it's more likely to be for the 1.71 patch.
  

Xelor and Osamodas

    
Regarding what is to come:
For the moment, we have already defined all the global axes that we want to tackle with the Xelor revamp as well as a good part of the more "micro" elements (spells and passive). We are quite close to a final result on the concept side.

For the moment it should be a class with powerful positioning effects, big possibilities of bursting in damage, and support abilities as well, with the weakening of the opponents and ally buff; that said it won't be able to do all three at the same time.

On the other hand for the Osamodas, we still haven't decided exactly what to do with the capture system, even though we have several options under consideration. We have found that the community also did not have a strong bias on that matter.

As a reminder, there are two main possible approaches:
  • [*]Keep the capture system that is unique and specific to Wakfu, by deepening and broadening the potential of the invocations that can be captured.
    This poses several problems: We want players to be able to use monsters as they are in the world, but in general this is impossible to achieve because many monsters have synergy effects with their allies, or very specific gamebreaker effects. In addition, the Osamodas would always have a variable power from one level to another, depending on the monsters that can be captured at a given level.[*]Have a generic invocation, which players can customize in appearance as well as active and passive abilities.
    This approach would allow players to build their own invocations, which is also a unique feature. But the conceptual richness of pure capture would be lost.

Add-ons

Simplicity


I think it is essential to explain the relationship between simplicity and shallowness :

Players tend to feedback on the new "simplicity" of the classes. When we want a class to become simpler, it doesn't mean that it will lose richness and depth.
Classes need to be simple, understandable, and it's extremely important work to make sure that players have a good feeling with the class from the start. In addition, it is essential to quickly understand the effects of spells or mechanics.

Unfortunately, there is nothing profound about memorizing too many effects of a class. We think that this is also true for dungeons.

That's why we're trying to remove mechanics that are very heavy or complex to visualize, and why we're trying to add more generic and global interactions. It's not necessarily a work that's visible at first glance, but we hope that the game will become much healthier as we work on it.

And of course we want to keep the depth threshold just as high as before, if not higher.
  

Why change all the mechanics?


We don't want to give players the frustration of having to "relearn" their classes, but sometimes we decide it's necessary, for several reasons.
  • Part of what makes some classes (too) strong is not their power in one role but their ability to combine several roles at the same time in a profitable way. It is sometimes difficult to change without completely reworking all the roles in question.
  • It is difficult to iterate on the Osamodas and Xelor classes because their conceptual basis is not powerful enough for us. We can't iterate on these classes until we are satisfied with their macro design.


What now ?


For now, we didn’t decide anything specifically for after the Xelor and Osamodas. We have several ideas of projects for example on the Enutrof or the Sram, but for the moment nothing is decided yet.

For the future, we still want to offer a maximum of passives on the classes and this will probably be the subject of a dedicated update.


See you guys soon for the Beta update !
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First Ankama intervention

Replying to cody5

ph34r
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Score : 3900

The also hinted at a steam achievent fix

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ph34r
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Please don't do anything with the Enutrof. I don't want to lose another character.<_

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same I don't want to loose my sram or enu too.

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" Osamodas and Xelor classes because their conceptual basis is not powerful enough for us " I like the sound of that train of though. All aboard the buff train CHOO CHOO!

Also... I wonder if you could keep the Tick/Tock mechanics, they make Xelor very fun and unique and allow spells to have different effects without relying on negligible conditions or other spells beforehand.

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Score : 1668

You might misunderstood the Devs. It could also mean

" We've stripped both class to the bare minimum of it's core mechanics, and build on top of it, and we feel they're not ready for release yet "

In other word, it could be a buff, nerf, or no changes in terms of coceptual ability to perform

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So, if xelor rework wont be deployed by this december, will it be testable by this december? Or are the beta tests for it not gonna be until next year as well?

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I think it means the whole thing, Beta test and all, won't arrive this december. Kind of a pity, would be a nice timing, 12th month, 12 numbers on a clock.

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Was it ever clarified that if Solidity Sublimation is Per Round (once per Match), or Per Turn (resets every Turn)? Still unsure if the "per round" mentioned in description not matching with it's "per turn" effects is not intended.

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I think it is valid each turn else it could state as can activate once only per fight. 

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I'm sad. these five classes have been announced for 2020. and during the year only 3 classes were made and the next update 1.70 will again improve these three classes. winter / spring 2021 will be xelor. then in spring / summer osa and at the end of 2021 a new passive system for everyone? unfortunately for me the improvement and development of the game is too slow to keep me interested in the game. I'll take a year off. I've been waiting for a whole year for you to make xelor deeper than it is now. and instead they write to me to wait for 2021...

Р.S. it is strange that in dofus all classes are updated in several updates so that other classes do not wait too long for their turn. I was just tired of waiting and hoping for a surprise at the end of the year that the December update brought either a new passive system for all or an update xelor + osa 
sad

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Score : 207

 covid is happening still. It is an unfortunate incident that has slowed down everyones life.

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When proudly release those revamped classes and only notice the half-cooked afterward is meh... Hopefully the coming one get enough time to address since its delay to next year. Just wonder what issue need to twitch on those current solid class like Fortune or Mars? Priority to the Control stat and passive rework is better. Ah, when is the announced Ecosystem update could be huh?

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Score : 58

Minor tweaks won't matter much right? Judging how many fuse that changes on Rogue huh?
Yeah, control stat no longer valid but spent on gears with Control stat is shrugs...

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Score : 3900

They said they are working on a control rework, but it won't be in 1.70

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I hope devs can take a look in simplicity term at dungeon and boss mechanic notification. Because is nearly 0 now. And its when dungeon overloaded with them, i mean 3/4 of turn is something happen and you just need to remamber what, because nothing indicate it.
Boss will use stasis at next turn - some glow at UI, some marks at cells around boss to know where you dont need to stand.
For example at mineral tower :
Meteor/no wakfu turn - boss cast some visual spell at start, make some sound?
Boss will summon crystals next turn - light pilars at crystals places
Boss get agony spell - boss cast it at start of turn, not just green little glow at green boss at green mine smile
Etc in that way.
And "hide walls" button in battle UI. It was there time ago, and then it move to options. Dont know why.
 

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Hello everyone,

EN replay of yesterday's live is available here!

Enjoy smile

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Score : 75

I posted this in the merger summary post (HERE), but I was curious if there were any plans to update skill graphics? Most skills feel lackluster even compared to Dofus. I think that a refresh on skill graphics would go a long way towards increasing the game's appeal to a wider audience.

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Score : 5570

Some class like Feca do had update the spell icon and graphic effect recently, but others remain some time already indeed.  

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Oncewing|2020-11-06 18:06:12
I posted this in the merger summary post (HERE), but I was curious if there were any plans to update skill graphics? Most skills feel lackluster even compared to Dofus. I think that a refresh on skill graphics would go a long way towards increasing the game's appeal to a wider audience.


They did update most feca and fogger spell animations (fogger even has the stasis recolors), but for masquarders they didn't even make new animations for the new skills (3 specials even use the same animation now).
They said they don't plan to make new animations for the other classes, but I was really hoping they would at least make some new ones when they fully rework a class
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Score : 75

That's actually pretty sad. I know Dofus has more players, but I think they're doing the community and even future players a disservice by not updating spell effects. I played Dofus for the first time this week because of the free boost for November, and I was amazed at the quality of the spell animations for something as simple as the Sacrier. I've tried getting people into Wakfu off and on for the past 8 years and between the game feeling unpolished and the animation quality, people always seemed turned off by it.

Personally, I love(d) the show and I love coming back to the game to see what's changed, but seeing how outdated it all is, even with how much effort has been put towards the leveling experience (GREAT job, there, in my opinion!), the combat still has a rather limited graphical appeal.

Thanks for your responses. Maybe Ankama is putting all their eggs in the Waven basket? But I would love to see Wakfu 2, the sequel, with a more polished look and feel.

Either that, or I may be moving to the new 3D Dofus (Unity) whenever / if ever it launches...

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You could instead of Enu and Sram... you know... release the Leaf knight? maybe? please? I want him so badly

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Score : 43

I've always had a thing for playing a feca. It's a class I always have in my team. This new revamp has a lot more utility and distinction between the 3 roles it can take: Tank, Support, Damage dealer. I really like the utility the feca provides in a team, however some spells seem to prevent it from being a 'protector'. 

For instance, master of shields. This spell makes a lot of spells useable, however having a 3 turn cool down to reapply a shield feels way too long, and if I were a tank feca, armor-applying spells easily get drained within the second turn. 

Also Avalanche is such an amazing positioning spell, however it takes up 6 ap (with a 2ap glyph) if I were to use it to move an ally/enemy, 12 ap if I need to use it twice. It's great, but I feel it takes up too much AP compared to other classes' positioning spells. I also wish the range was modifiable, or maybe 1-2 range farther.

Apart from those 2 gripes, I am really happy with the revamped feca. It's the most fun I've had tweaking a class as every time I change spells and passives, I seem to learn a new mechanic that makes the feca even more flexible and highly synergistic in team fights. I'm excited for what's to come this December patch!

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[Ankama]WAKFU

I think it is essential to explain the relationship between simplicity and shallowness :

Players tend to feedback on the new "simplicity" of the classes. When we want a class to become simpler, it doesn't mean that it will lose richness and depth.
Classes need to be simple, understandable, and it's extremely important work to make sure that players have a good feeling with the class from the start. In addition, it is essential to quickly understand the effects of spells or mechanics.

Unfortunately, there is nothing profound about memorizing too many effects of a class. We think that this is also true for dungeons.

That's why we're trying to remove mechanics that are very heavy or complex to visualize, and why we're trying to add more generic and global interactions. It's not necessarily a work that's visible at first glance, but we hope that the game will become much healthier as we work on it.

And of course we want to keep the depth threshold just as high as before, if not higher.
 

In my experience with Wakfu, one of the most prevalent ways the "simplicity" issue is addressed is by intentionally designing multiple spells to function together as a blueprint to either sequence a specific series of spells together ("spell rotations") or by having non-elemental spells enhance certain elemental spells in a very simple way. 

When it comes to a class having "too many" complex aspects, it's usually because there are too many of these separate blueprints within a single class which don't overlap with each other and don't fill a whole deck, resulting in a class which either doesn't use all its spell slots (passives usually get filled with generic buffs, which the non-metagame blueprints usually don't benefit from enough to fill all your passive slots even with generic passives) or split between opposing masteries which makes the class overall less useful than playing a simpler class which performs the same main function without any losses. 

Generally, each class should center around one central theme for the whole class which only that one class does with the various specialized functions of the class revolving around that one theme, the specialized branches having some overlap with other classes but always being unique in how the function is applied. The core functions would be along the lines of Osa's single powerful summon, Enutrof's mines, Sram's invisibility, Rogue's bombs, etc. 

I would make the spells used for these core functions naturally available on the third bar to leave the whole deck with spells which contribute to these core themes. Elemental spells can interact with the core themes to have more potent damage/healing/max range/etc. or be used to trigger the core effect for various masteries of damage (ex: Feca's glyphs being different element, Cra shooting beacons for area pushing/damage), active specialties can manipulate the core theme into a tangential specialized function (ex: Cra being able to reposition using beacons), and passives would be upgrades for various aspects of the core function (ex: Sram's trap-related passives to upgrade their damage).
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Score : 1668

I want a high skill cap class. At some point Xelor was just that, before all the nerfs and added limitations it has been getting for the past 5 years since it's last revamp in 2015. Pulling off that 200 IQ combo of Saving Ally + AOE Positioning Setup + Multi Kill on the same turn, all that while managing your AP, Rollback, MP a.k.a doing Math on the fly under 30 seconds, is rewarding.

I understand why "Simplicity" is needed for new players to be easily pick up, I just hope there is still a level of complexity for high skill cap players, where combat is not a one trick pony, rather things like Map awareness, Decision making, Ability to predict / pre-calculate moves, is actually rewarding.

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Score : 75

I definitely think it's a good idea to have a class that's like this. It doesn't have to be every class, and maybe not even more than one or two. But I think if there was going to be a class that was high difficulty to master, and especially high difficulty to learn. I think that's fine. Although, I do wish that those same classes had an easier build to learn some of the core mechanics off of before switching. I think every class should have at least one build that doesn't have so many mechanics that you need a thousand hours playtime to figure out.

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Score : 2321

Im xelor from begining of this game, and each update makes less fun to play this char. Stacking debuffs and then release them to see huge dmg was rly fun, or even just additional dmg by removing ap and getting back some portion to help create that burst. When ap resist came out i just quit game for few years. It was just to much. Dial weaker so mobs easly destroy it in second round, much harder to get ap back from removing mobs ap, spells amout restriction. I lost feeling of playing the character  that player do more then just casting the strongest spell. Also hydrant + dust xelor is fun but usless in many dungeons cuz many mobs get buffs from other mobs. In many cases hes just to expensive in ap to be usefull enought. In brief he was a great and strong char to play but difficult. After many nerfs he just 5/10 now from 9,5/10. I forgot my favourite spell was punishment long ago but now its not worth even to highlight. Ehhh it was cool before that 2 xelors could stack temporal distortion to max, now this spell is totaly usless like half of xelor deck. Elio, hupper, iop get more love sad

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Score : 2266

[Ankama]WAKFU


  
We have always planned to standardize indirect damages. It is a long project that impacts many things. Nevertheless, we have developed technical improvements to go in this direction.
  • Poisons and other states can take the critical damages.
  • New characteristic "Indirect damage inflicted" to effectively visualize your current character bonuses.

At this stage, we cannot guarantee that these improvements will happen for the 1.70 patch. In fact, it's more likely to be for the 1.71 patch.
 

so this its mean even the rouge bomb will be affect by crits??
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Score : 632

How can they ignore Sadida for rework? The class has been asking for a major scale rework for literally years, dolls are useless and cumbersome in pve and tedious in pvp.

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Score : 1668

Dolls overpowered in PvP? Yes

But Sadida in general is anything but weak in PvE, they're hands down the BEST SUPPORT late game. Just look at Leaderboard.

Name any other class that can Revive, Heal, Armor, Buff DF%, DeBuff DF%, Buff Resist, DeBuff Resist, Poison, -MP, -RA Push in Any Direction without LOS, moving around with getting Lock using Follow, and most importantly, Dolls which are amazingly useful in late game dungeons, especially Ogrest and Vandaliénés Dungeon.

Just another case of mid-game player complaining about balancing when they have yet to fully realize the class full potential.

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