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Ankama Trackers

Feedback on Enchantment

By [Ankama]WAKFU - ADMINISTRATOR - May 24, 2019, 12:00:00
AnkaTracker
Reactions 78
Score : 4298

Ankama should try and play the game at it's current state from scratch with no heroes like a normal player would will see how many years it will take them to max out their gears and character lol. It's hard to even get a party doing dungeon runs trying to gather those rare items this is worst than Dark Souls lol. 

11 -1
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Score : 271

This is also massively pushing people to not play with anyone anymore.  Rare drops and hard to get drops are going to now be even more sought after and who wants to share with the already abysmally low drop rates as it is?  The even more solo mmo, and the person who actually does grind out all this will stand alone on the top of the mountain and look down and see nothing.

11 -1
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Score : 4370

Um you do know drops aren't "shared" right?
You don't loose drops is you have more people in your party, everyone has a separate drop pool, that's why it's easier to get more gear with heroes or sidekicks, because you get 3 times as much drops.

0 -22
Score : 937

I've said it before...they are trying to kill this game. They want to drive the player population away to shutdown wakfu.

9 -1
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Score : 89

"In our initial proposal (presented in the Devblog article about Enchantment), we mentioned the possibility of maintaining the state of an item's sockets when increasing its rarity through crafting.

We soon realized that this approach was much too permissive, and that it made the option of modifying a high-rarity item's sockets totally obsolete in comparison.

We therefore decided not to maintain the state of an item's sockets when increasing its rarity, but in exchange, we have substantially reduced the cost of modifying its sockets (by dividing it by 5 as explained above)."

How could it be even possible or fair? Crafting already demand tons of time and effort . Why Ankama want their own players spend worthless time on gear upping without an end?

I wonder if the developers play this game.

9 -1
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Score : 4298

Let's just take a long break or quit util the devs fix their minds lol 

2 0
Score : 4370

 

Lykard|2019-05-24 23:05:31
yes people would have 2 choice now: going crazy to have theryre perfect set or giveup and leave the game.
i play with 6 chars but i'm really sad of that; i tried to focus to the social suicide aspect of this update but noone seems to notice, ankama nor players.
really sad


Honestly this comment really shows the problem with the attitude of some players towards the new update.
There's always the third option of just WEARING IMPERFECT GEAR.
The already said that even 2 runes will be stronger then a current maxed out item, you will still be able to do dungeons just fine even if your gear doesn't have 4 slots and perfect chromas.
0 -35
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Score : 212

yes but i believe you havent feel what we feel, and runing with 2 slot like what you just said, then roll again when you have the feeling to upgrade it just making the item 0 rune again.

0 0
Score : 2096

for me / back player / new player who never got 200 lvl or build eq... this system it's cool - meybe little bad about rng and colors smile (mean about legend,epic,relic and even mithical items)

but i understand feel TOP player who spend drop one piece EQ few months.. and now RNG give bad "color" and item lose even worth then before....

but they can keep current stats... so....

1 -4
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Score : 13

 

cody5|2019-05-25 04:17:09
Um you do know drops aren't "shared" right?
You don't loose drops is you have more people in your party, everyone has a separate drop pool, that's why it's easier to get more gear with heroes or sidekicks, because you get 3 times as much drops.


Guess what else. You need 3 times the mats to gear [ALL] your characters too! Wow, smart players I see. Playing alone and playing with people isn't really that much different when you actually understand this. Cause guess what, if you don't gear all your characters then you are shoving undergeared heroes/sidekicks in a battle and only making it harder for yourself if you only gear up your Main.

If you want to touch yourself and play 3-6 characters solo aswell as cry yourself to sleep at the thought interacting with the populous even if dwindling because muh loot will be shared with those HUMANS then go right ahead I suppose.
5 0
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Score : 2096

for me / back player / new player who never got 200 lvl or build eq... this system it's cool - meybe little bad about rng and colors smile (mean about legend,epic,relic and even mithical items)

but i understand feel TOP player who spend drop one piece EQ few months.. and now RNG give bad "color" and item lose even worth then before....

but they can keep current stats... so....

0 0
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Score : 8775

"1 item 5 tries" -->  MUCH better......
"no reduction in slots" --> Very good as well.

I still think that ALL Relics/Epics/Souvenirs should have a minimum slot number of at least 2, but if the two socket-roll-outcomes are not 50/50 or worse it might be acceptable without that...


Wait a sec, we can still use those fragments from crushing items to change colours, right??


Also, what happens to the invested resources when you upgrade an item, if the sockets do not stay the same? Refund?

0 0
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Score : 153

     While these changes might look like an improvement, the system itself is still pretty much flawed and unacceptable . For this system to be somehow good  you have to either remove random completely, or allow us to use shards or something else to reroll. Otherwise this system is just like a moldy bread, no matter how many sugar powder you dust on it, it won’t change much.
 
I tried to comprehend what you have wrote in the Q&A, but couldn’t find valid points. Here some questionable theses:

>Why use a randomized system instead of a deterministic one?


"We don't have a specific preference for random or deterministic systems; we feel that both approaches have their strengths and weaknesses."   

     If you don’t have preferences, maybe listen to feedback from the players then? I mean, they play this game more than you do. They know better how in long-term this change will affect the game and their in-game experience.


"We want to propose objectives that are theoretically accessible but statistically improbable. There is no guarantee that players will be able to achieve these objectives, but the possibility of achieving  them is always there. This approach is very difficult to accomplish with a deterministic system."     

       Now hold up, that’s called gamble. You can waste all your money playing roulette too, but there is no guarantee that you will ever got what you want.  Last time I described this approach as “carrot on a stick” and now I see that I was correct. Why do you have to be so disrespectful to your player base? Why you want to tease them with this "ultimate optimization"?

>Why not use shards to modify equipment (instead of sacrificing an identical item)?


"We want the difficulty of enchanting an item to depend directly on its availability." "We want this difficulty to be completely dynamic, and we want it to adapt to the supply and demand associated with each piece of equipment."   

      You have to consider other factors. Some items are already hard to get and require days or even weeks of farming. Some items you can't even buy, because population on some servers is too low.

     "The only way to ensure this behavior is to require players to sacrifice an identical item. In addition, we want optimizing a particular piece of equipment to require playing the content that generates that equipment."   

       Once again, you have to consider other factors: some people might not enjoy the content, which generates needed item, some people can’t run it for various reasons. But right now they at least could get item from market and slowly work towards upgrades with generally available resources, which is more enjoyable, because they know, that invested time is going to payoff in the end. Also, I believe it’s just hard for people to sacrifice very rare items (relics, souvenirs, shushu weapon, seal craft items etc) just to get a  “statistically improbable” chance.


"For example, we don't want players to be able to optimize an item from Nogord by attacking huge numbers of Gobballs."     

     With the amount of rerolls you need to get what you want? It would be totally acceptable. During my latest tests I needed 8 to 10 items (40 – 50 before changes lol) on average, just to roll sockets number. If 1 roll would costs 1000 shards for example, I would need around 50k to do so. Level 200 relic gives around 2000 shards when destroyed. Can you do the math? Also, keep in mind, that to upgrade 1 rune slot you need like 10k shards. I know that you used this reference as example,  but it would be nice if you could log into beta server and try it yourself first. Last time I checked, gobbal items yielded 0.03.-0.05 shards per item. So if someone would decide to kill gobbals to upgrade his nogord item – I actually would be impressed by his determination.

"We believe that it's much healthier and more interesting in the long term to >give players an incentive to play a diverse range of content."     

     Yes yes, it is very interesting to craft another souvenir item to add 5 more charges and press reroll button 5 times - just see no changes. (because  again - “statistically improbable”)


>How do I max out optimization on equipment that's harder to acquire?

"No part of the in-game content will require you to achieve the "ultimate" optimization of your enchantments."   

       I believe, PVP folks my have different opinion on this. I wonder how they feel, knowing that they are going to lose some fight just because their opponent had more luck with rolls. Also, if pve-content not requires such optimization, why even implement such possibility ? To add more to the power creep?

     Do you guys really want to repeat mistakes you did with Moon or Enu rework 1.0 with this update? What are you trying to achieve?

edit: formatting

12 0
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Score : 875

I was not very partisan with the idea that Ankama wants to shutdown the game, but I'm changing my mind.

6 0
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Score : 2925

Sooooo what of 1.63 gears that are on the old system but are not fully runed yet? Like for instance a rune is at +7 instead of +10. Will one be able to still upgrade these runes in 1.64? If not then whatever current runes exist should be considered either saved up or used prior to 1.64 hitting (in case the runes can no longer be upgraded at all). Also what about upgrading a gear's quality? Will they lose their runes if upgraded from mythical to legendary?

2 0
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Score : 167

This is terrible. Super rich people buying all highlvl gear to maximize their equipment. Meanwhile new players have hardly any chance of buying gear since the prices will be ridicoulous. That's gonna be an economic fallout, i mean.. there is hardly any highlvl equip in the market anyways.

3 0
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Score : 4370

You can get rich quick by selling gear you drop or craft tho

0 -11
Score : 70

In the end of this month I take some boxes to the records.... If i don't want open it to wait the enchenment update I can take the new sublimation rune?

0 0
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Score : 2416

"We don't have a specific preference for random or deterministic systems; we feel that both approaches have their strengths and weaknesses."

All right let's go through most aspects of this game and see if this statement is true:


Random systems currently present in Wakfu (includes Pseudo-deterministic systems (Fixed type of result, but with random factors, given specific input)):

Harvesting (Target will always yield 1-3 resources of it's specified type)
Planting (Seeds will always yield the same plant, but chances of successful plant is random)
Daily boss quests, modulox quests (Same reward, randomized target boss for each day and quest)
Environmental quests (Rewards are always the same, appearance of the quests are tied to specific areas, but randomized as for when they appear)
Monster group composition/appearance (Dungeon rooms, Archboss packs and planted mobs have a chance to look different in regards to types, amounts or levels, monster families are tied to specific areas/dungeons)
Randomized stats on gear (Masteries/Resistances)
Rerolling gear with Transmutations (provides a random combination of possible mastery/resistance)
Character experience (Fixed amount of experience for each specific mob, however since everything about mobs are tied to random systems, this is in practical terms randomized as well)
PvP reward chests (Randomized rewards from a set drop table)
End-of-Season rewards (Randomized rewards from a set drop table)
Loot drops (Randomized rewards from a set drop table, with very few exceptions, see next section)
Stasis effects (Effects are chosen randomly and applied to random targets)
Website Scratch-card events (Randomized rewards)

Deterministic systems (same result every time, given a specific input):

Dungeon Token system:
Daily seed/loot quests (Always gives 1/2 tokens per quest completed (2/4 if using booster))
Weekly boss quests (Always gives 40 tokens per quest completed (80 if using booster))
Dungeon Token drops (Bosses always drop 2 tokens per character (4 if using booster))
Dungeon token machines (Always provides specific items for a set amount of tokens)
Archboss Souper-Glou drops (Archbosses always drop 10 Souper-Glou of their level bracket)
One-time quests, achievements (Always gives the same reward for every character completing it)
Almanax buffs (Always privides the same buffs on a rotating schedule)
Crafting/Harvesting experience (Fixed amounts of experience for each specific item crafted/harvested)
Crafting/Upgrading (Always gives the target item upon craft)
Rune Fragment fusing (Always produces the relic for the fragment type in question)
Enchanting (Runes required, cost to upgrade, hammers/metamorfos to change rune types are all fixed)


As you can see, the deterministic systems are a lot fewer than the random ones, and much much more narrow in usage, with the exception of crafting and enchanting.

That's right, enchanting.
In it's current form it's completely deterministic (collecting the runes however are not, this is tied to the random loot drop system), so why on earth would Ankama want to change this into a randomized system if they have no preference towards random systems (which they obviously do, regardless of what they're saying to convince us otherwise).

7 0
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Score : 8775

Because they can hardly sell "more rolls" or something similar if the system is deterministic...

They need another way to try and milk us dry encourage us to invest into the further developement of this great and consumer friendly game...

4 0
Score : 1

I'm trying to survive in the game, while this update is not enough. If I continue this randomness I will not be able to play again.

It's bad to play without vip, I even thought about renewing it, but reading all this, I saw that it did not change practically anything that we did not approve in the update.

I'm sorry. I like the game a lot, it's the only one I play. I'm feeling lost thinking that I'll have to stop playing wakfu.

0 0
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Score : 4370

you should really find some other games to play, if you just play wakfu you'll get burnt out, take a break from wakfu and try something else for a change

0 -9
Score : 2025

Jesus, cody5 trying to aggressively defend Ankama on everything. lol

5 -1
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Score : 4370

I'm not defending amakna, I'm just saying some of these counterarguments are really unsubstantiated.
I agree that the rework still has some problems and also will never agree with the fact amakna implemented Havenworlds, because they are literally the worst addition to the game as they discourage playing with other people and bypasses base game mechanics.

2 -9
Score : 249

(edit) So apparently a lot of this actually has been addressed and I just whiffed it hardcore (whoops). The points about initiative and the shift away from resistances stand though; the current red and green socket situation has improved dramatically while even matching (much less exceeding) blues is asking quite a bit more. The initiative, I'm realizing, isn't a new problem so much as a continuation of an old one, but I'm still going to take this moment to beg for something more independent to tweak it with seeing as bookkeeping even for a single character just exploded in depth and complexity, and it continues to be a thorn in the side of creativity and especially interchangeability (the passive helps, but the limitations there are not minor).



Apologies if they've already been brought up, but wanted to hit a point or two that I haven't caught so far. The concept of the whole sliding scale of item-rarity-to-enchantment-ease seems like it's being addressed without accounting for some pretty important edge cases; I've already been frustrated by limited relic and epic options, and Ogrest's Wrath in particular is now extremely conspicuously upset (and/or completely screwed over). I get that part of the theme here is the death of perfectionism, but it's a very short leap from that idea to "this item basically doesn't exist anymore".

It would be a lot easier to swallow the "work with what you get and be creative" theme if it wasn't already such a nightmare to maintain a reasonable initiative order even when you know what to expect. Something as simple and silly as allowing a character to "opt out" of a chunk of their initiative would go a very, very long way. But if managing that is intended to be as difficult as it already is, I see that as a severe issue in the new system.

I like a lot about what I'm seeing here, and maybe most of all the idea that I might not have to bend over backwards to max out on crit now and again sounds fantastic. I also like the much-improved control over tragically-low minimum resist cases, though I worry some at what also feels like an inevitable decrease in the average (probably felt most by healers). I'll be the first to admit that resist runes are disproportionately effective at the moment, but the shift here is pretty dramatic and I don't really feel like it's being addressed as such.

In any case, there are some super cool new options for sure, and I'm glad my kamas can stop being paranoid about the rune grinder, but It's hard to fully appreciate the good while contemplating returning to the drawing board constantly to re-figure initiative. I can live without my bitey rings if their rng sucks I suppose (or mash several bad into one good? there's that), but while reshuffling a single character's build plan on the go probably just got much easier (and thank you for that), the initiative mess that comes with that has me curling up in a corner more than a little bit.

0 0
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Score : 16

Will there be changes to the Handyman profession's recipe set, since rune powders will be obsolete? Those recipes are a go-to for the guild points quests.

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Score : 1065

Rune powder is not obsolete since you need rune powder for every gear update.

0 0
Score : 215

After all this discussion it's plainly obvious what the problem is. This system requires far too many resources. That's the one issue everyone complains about. Sublimations, colors, resistances, attack, that's all fine and well, but it's pointless if only 1% of the population will ever get to use it. 
Buff the drops and watch the complaints vanish. So what if your "legendary" object isn't legendary anymore? It will be practical.
If you don't want to make objects cheaper, then make production cheaper. Everyone's already said this because it's obvious, but still. 

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