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Ankama Trackers

Beta: Rogue Revamp Feedback #2

By [Flatops] - ADMINISTRATOR - June 01, 2018, 11:00:00
AnkaTracker News

Many of you have shared your comments about the Rogue's revamp. We share with you today the changes we've made after listening to your feedback! Discover all the changes in the Beta server!


Les Bombes (Bombs): some have higher cost but inflicts more damage

  • The Fire Bomb changed to 4 AP. It's damage has doubled.
  • The Earth Bomb changed to 3 AP. It's damage has increased by 50%.
  • The number of Bombs of each element is limited to 3 per team (instead of 3 per Rogue).
  • Each Elemental Bomb can only be summoned once per turn per team.
  • The description of the Fire Bomb will specify that the bomb removes 2 Range.
  • Earth spells, except Tromblon (Blunderbuss), will deal a lot of damage to Bombs.

Boote (Boot): polishing of the mechanics
  • No longer needs line of sight.
  • Range of 1-6, instead of 2-6.
  • Can no longer be casted on a Bomb, use on an empty cell.
  • The spell now moves the nearest Bomb (which is in the same line, or diagonal) on the target cell. The spell can be used to bring a bomb closer, or farther, but only in the same line or the same diagonal.
  • The connection effect is generated only if a bomb has been moved.

Pulsar: change of concept
  • Now costs 2 AP and 1 WP.
  • Can be used once per turn.
  • Inflicts Earth damage in the area (approximately 3 AP).
  • Consumes all the remaining MP.
  • If the spell is used at the beginning of the turn, the damage is doubled but the cooldown increases to 2 turns.

Mur de Poudre (Powder Wall): less immediate
  • The spell now has a 3 turn cooldown. 
  • The powder remains in the field for 2 turns.
  • Powder is no longer consumed when a character already has the effect.
  • The damage has been reviewed: 3 AP of dmg + 0.6 per Combo (instead of 2 + 1 per Combo)
  • The damage of the Powder Wall is now indicated in its description.

Mitraille (Machine Gun): more connections
  • Connexion (Connection): increases all damage lines of the next AoE spell.

Fumigènes (Smoke): new addition!
  • Costs 1 WP.
  • Cooldown of 3 turns.
  • Applies the "Smoke" state to the Rogue for 2 turns.
  • Smoke: when Rogue Fire spells are casted diagonally, their effects are extended by 2 cells and their damage becomes AoE damage.
  • Connexion (Connection): doubles the damage of Tir Croisé (Cross Fire).

Miscellaneous
  • When the player has the passives K-Boom and Gadgets évolués (Evolved Gadgets) in his deck, Dynamite will no longer suffer from a bug that had a 50% chance to prevent the spell from being able to launch on itself.
  • Reconversion (Boombot's spell): The copied bomb has been improved: it will have the same max and current HPs, combo level, number of times it won combo, Barbrûlé (Barbed Fire) resistance and Dynamite level. Note that the other effects that the bomb can receive are not copied, for example, all types of protection.

Important: Some of the Rogue effects have been translated but it is not yet complete. In addition, the latest modified or added effects may not be translated or may not have the correct descriptions.

Discover all of the changes in the Beta server!
 
Reactions 38
Score : 28

WHY didn't you focus on the number one issue that literally every region community have complained that most, and that is that NOBODY LIKES A BOMB ONLY ORIENTED ROGUE. Give us back the passives and skills needed to never use those dumb things on our builds. We want a bombless Rogue, we never signed up to the class for the bombs, no matter how much YOU (and only you) love them.

-19
Score : 12208

Rogue always was about bombs, and no community didn't "complain the most about bombs" you're just projecting.
There are still ways to be a rogue by using bombs only for utility, earth and fire branches only need bombs for utility and WP regeneration.

And thirdly, the passives you were talking about (like the initiative stat-damage conversions) were just put into the build because the old build was bad and they used the passive as a placeholder until they can rework them, just like lone sadida passive on sadidas.
If you want a ranged damage dealer without bombs, go play a foggernaut or a cra.

-7
Score : 583

Here we go again, and you started by saying after the comunity feedback, but you still go against the feedback,let me try a bit slower so you can conprehend......WE DONT WANT BOMBS!!!!!!!!,i wonder how u mesure the amount of fetures we told ya we dont want but if i read again last posts owr voice was loud and clear.No Bombs!!,.Twice may work,not get back to the drawing table and stop ignoring us.

-14
Score : 12208

Or maybe most of the community likes bombs and ankama are listening to them, while the few people that dislike bombs are the ones complaining about it loudly in the forums and you base your whole opinion on that?

Also the devs already stated that "they decided that the new rework will be based around bombs" no amount of complaining is gonna change that. Try giving some creative criticism instead.

-7
Score : 12208

Well I personally really like the changes to the bombs because it means you can use different bombs depending on what you wanna use them for, having bigger bombs means you can spend more ap on them without having to worry so much about the cast limit, while cheap bombs can be used for utility in the air tree.

The only thing that worries me is if the MP and Range debuffs will also scale with the AP cost, just like the damage? because otherwise it will be much harder to remove range and mp
Also will the firewall apply debuffs like on beta?
PS Also will the firewall remain on the field if a bomb is moved or exploded? because otherwise an enemy can just push a bomb to break them early
PPS: Also you should change the name of Smoke to Powder, it would make more sense

-7
Score : -11

Good for you cody but the mayority disagrees,keep backing them up and they may give u a free costume.whats next bowless Cra revamp?.

-10
Score : 12208

Oh pshh, haven't you heard of a Silent majority? I bet there's max 50 people who hate the bombs, but they are the only ones tilted enough to shout on the forums about it.

-7
Score : 28

To this other guy dreaming that "is a silent community" (and I can't reply 'cause this forum is weird) my main language is spanish, which region have actually a bigger community, and literally all the pages talking about Rogue is against bombs. Smh, the delusion of some people. 

-9
Score : 676

I'm also part of the spanish and portuguese community and your statement is false.

the community if pretty even when talking about bomb and not bomb rogue.

speak only for your-self don't come there saying the entire spanish community is against it.

-6
Score : 1716

"Bowless Cra revamp"
Asking the devs. to remove bombs is literally asking for that as well; Bombs are the Rogue's MAIN tool up their sleeves, it's their signature for their presence and what they have been always known for; if you like daggers so much why not just play a freaking Sram? Rogues have always been and will always be about bombs, if you have a problem with that play another class. As a matter of fact one the main things I disliked about Wakfu Rogue is how lightly relevant bombs are to them, which is absolutely out of their theme.

-6
Score : 12208

Well technically the Rogues theme is "gadgets" which include bombs, guns, robots, etc. (and magic punches? maybe it's brass knuckles), but bombs are their most iconic gadget so a rogue without them would be very weird.
PS: Why are you downvoting this guy? He said he lieks bombs

-2
Score : -9

Change the class name from Rogue to Bomber.
Create 2/3 more bomb spells.
Give a free class change (usable only in the first month) to every rogue player, so they can change class to something else if they want to.

-11
Score : 676

I always played the bomb rogue and I'm so happy with this revamp... finally the class will be unique and not just a crap version of cra...

Fire rogue was the only part of the build that made him unique. Air = IOP, Earth = Cra.
If you didn't played Fire rogue before you are better with another char instead of a rogue.

-2
Score : 12208

Actually earth was more like a fogger

0
Score : 3818

Im never a fan of limiting classes and penalizing people for have 2 of the same class in a group.
"Each Elemental Bomb can only be summoned once per turn per team."
I fear this might do more harm to players than the good it is preventing with multi-class exploits.

-5
Score : 109

While I agree that Rogue should be about bombs, yet they still could add like 5 more passives to allow Rogues to build around bombless build. Same as Sadida is about dolls. despite it has Lone Sadida that is a joke, since 90% of passives are around the dolls and doll mechanics are retarded as hell, so you can't play Sadi without dolls.

-6
Score : 12208

Actually the devs confirmed "lone sadida" is just a placeholder passive until they revamp them to make dolls good, there isnt supposed to be a good dolless sadida build, that's like playing a melee cra.
You can but it's supposed to suck.

-3
Score : 37

I come from the spanish community and I love the new rework. I main Rogue since a very long time and I've played most of its possible builds and I have to say that this new rework feels fresh and fun. Saying that the whole community is against the current rework because of the class focusing on its main mechanic is bs, to the one complaining and talking diddlydoo about the rework you honestly need to stop projecting on the classes. If you dont like any of the current classes you should totally go play another game instead. Also its funny since the Rogue has always relayed on using bombs since Bomberfan was a really strong passive. I'm glad they got rid of Bomberfan because it made some builds stale and I like the path they are taking by avoiding passives that just directly increase damage

-6
Score : 128

The question of whether rogue "should" be so bomb-centric is kind of its own thing, and given that it's already being beaten to death I'm mostly going to leave it alone except to add that I think it's fair to draw attention to Mister Remi Smisse, as an iconic rogue in canon who does de-emphasize them (I believe the only instances are in Krosmaster and such, not the show).

So given this direction I'm pleased to say I think the beta rogue is really coming into its own now as a class with a new, unique, and interesting role and feel (current bomber rogues are free to fite me on how new/different full bomber builds feel, I'll admit I know less about how the completely polarized approaches compare). The one concern that still springs to my mind is that the sanction here sounds extremely punishing for multiple-rogue teams, and I completely agree that it's necessary in the current state, but I hope a healthier solution can be found in the long run so we won't have to feel sad about having too many rogue friends.

So for me personally I think I'm fresh out of angst except for the pain of the wait, and otherwise super excited for getting down to learning to (flashily) click-boom to victory.

0
Score : 12208

While Remington doesn't use bombs, it's mostly cause he's pulling the "gadget" them to it's other limit by using a ton of Shushu swords and guns (which are much more destructive) basicly making him an "off meta weapon build"

0
Score : 106

Geez, can you just make pulsar the way it is?? Then Fucillage

0
Score : 12208

I think the new piercing shot already fulfills the old pulsar's role

0
Score : 3644

Things I want to touch on:

Rogue master, The idea of it is boring. It's the only passive that affects one branch and is developed for one purpose - To give "Air" rogue survivability(Not melee rogue, just air). It's a very boring concept. There's connections in earth now, why doesn't it scale to earth as well? Or rather not have an effect for earth? . In any case, armor isn't a great idea for the class. Air Rogue wants to get in and get out, the spells are designed to promote that. If it is to build like a damage dealer and not "tanky" (A little biased here) armor isn't going to feel right and doesn't actually work well currently. Which brings me to air bomb. I think you could just enhance that philosophy and get rid of the armor for cheaper mobility.

Air bomb has no tangible use for the player in most situations. I get wanting to keep it low ap, but air rogues will use it as an escape mechanism and that's it (Which is great btw). I think there is a connection somewhere that can improve the mobility of a rogue while improving the need/want to explode the bomb. I believe that connection is in ruse. Detonation could be reduced by 1 ap for using ruse on a bomb. Bringing me to Detonation. 2-3 wp would be excellent for ruse btw. (Yes I know, it's similar to Cra's rolypoly but we stole from Iop's Air. Plus we're dependent on using  bombs to move so why not.)

I was also thinking maybe only when used on "Air bomb" does ruse reduce the cost of Detonation (To promote the use of Air bomb). Or Ruse could be reduced by 1 ap per connection from rogue master(This way you could give it a higher ap cost due to the stronger effects).

Detonations only use is to be used only if you run out of  WP(Rogue won't run out of wp at it's current rate without piercing shot.)

Now for elements - Air has no synergy with Ranged Rogue, while every other branch does with Melee Rogue. It's kind of forcing the whole air on to people (about as effectively as Iop does, and as an old Iop main, I didn't prefer it that way). Evanesence really promotes only using air branch more than it should. I do think it needs to be revisited. 

Smoke is bad in it's current state. Not useful at all. Only use I see in it is promoting the use of crossfire, but it doesn't. It's a waste of a slot. Crossfire in of itself is situationally good, improve the situation, don't add more.
 

-1
Score : 361

Alright, I'm glad your listening and actually fixed some glaring problems, but they're still some serious issues left which I will list.

  • Ranged rogues are still being marginalized. Melee rogues are just straight up more effective at playing a ranged bomber for some reason. The ranged rogues still have to waste a passive slot just so the distance damage and range on the their gear isn't useless. With 5 range my bombs only have 2 more range then they have without scope while also now be susceptible to blindness. Almost every spell in the earth branch now has short non-modifiable range for some reason, so range has even less uses. I think your vastly overestimating how effective range is considering how small maps are in this game.
  • The new pulsar is terrible. You told us you didn't want to put mp cost on spells than you give rogues a spell that consumes all our mp. The spell even encourages you to use it at the beginning of our turn. I preferred when it had some synergy with bombs.
  • Allow crossfire to be cast linearly as well. In it's current form it's too situational. I'd rather use mass charm because for me it's ease of use far out ways the cool down.
  • More range modifiable spells please. felt this needed it's own line.
  • Smoke needs a complete redesign, or at the least get rid of the silly diagonal cast restriction.
  • Change the air bomb so that that it pushes or pulls on detonation, either or works for me. Wakfu point theft is literally useless in PvM.

Edit: Almost forgot a big one. Bombs still die very easily in PvM. Now I'm not asking to make them more tanky since I'm sure that would have some ramifications in PvP which seems to be your focus these days. What I propose is making dynamite an AoE that requires a target. Only the target would get all the effects of the current dynamite, but bombs in the other cells would get the effect that causes them to explode when killed. Currently when I use dynamite in hopes that a mob will actually kill that particular bomb they hilariously kill all the other bombs first or ignore them completely and walk somewhere else. I feel this would help make rogue a bit more independent.
0
Score : 3644

Claw's connection is absolutely useless. It doesn't translate into next turn, so if your plan is to explode dynamite, you'll still get hit. (+1 combo is kind of low btw.)

Fugitive is not good at all, the idea is sound but the reward is far too low. Especially since boot gives us all the mp we'll need. Bombs are also not quite rewarding enough to promote the idea (nor is firewall). I mean you could summon all 3 bombs every turn and try to produce results but that would be very risky and the current rogue does not have cheap enough positioning to reliably perform the task. Also please scale the -damage dealt with level alongside combo.

Ka-boom is bad too, because detonation is bad. So we're highly dependent on dynamite.

Right now, Rogue is very disconnected from practicality and theory. A lot of the ideas work in theory, but when you put them into practice it does not work out well. Bombs can do a lot if you manage to get 3 of them together with high combo. The payoff is amazing if you manage to get 3 20 combo bombs together especially if  they're blinding.  But practically, I'm the weakest person on my team till atleast turn 3-4, If in some crazy way I get 45-50 on a blinding, I would have a chance to deal high damage if the enemy(s) stand close enough to all my bombs . Now if I explode bombs early, I'm dealing similar the rest of my team early but It falls off as the game goes on(Because Piercing shot removes all my wp requiring me to keep exploding bombs till it's useful again, but bombs will not be efficiently exploded. If you're not using piercing shot, you're dealing low damage.).

All in all, the class still needs a lot of work. I see no benefit in playing rogue currently.

Edit: I do think maximum Combo could be lowered to give current rogue some strength elsewhere (perhaps positioning for bombs). It has the Sadida problem, the potential is so high that it's degrading the rest of the class. It's only especially high if you spam bombs(not the most fun way to play and very easily overwhelms the player). 

Edit 2:  The main problem with the ramp up right now is that when we get to that point,. It requires a lot of planning and team effort to pull off almost making the whole ordeal more costly than intended. This includes that it requires you to completely take care of bombs prior turns. It's a team based game, but relying too much on your team won't produce any results (If current classes long term based classes are a indicator for anything)

Oh, if we could get something to stablize bombs too, that would be neat. Because on mob pushing the right bomb ruins everything. Matter a fact, I'd like a way to globally stablize bombs and a single target one. Both on pretty high cooldowns would even be fine. Because moving one bomb could ruin the entire plan to fire wall next turn.

0
Score : 16000

I support Rogue being turned into a bomb class. This is making every class unique while still keeping their role, they still do high damage because they're a damage class.

I hope they use the same mindset for sadida and remove lone sadida which is what most use in dungeons/boss fights. I hope they have the same respect for sadida that they have for Rogue.

-5
Score : 64

It does not mean that they deal good damage means they will be effective in highly technical runs and complicated boss mechanics. Sometimes we have to also consider the class practically in the run itself. 

As for the Sadida, you do not speak for the entire class, though I have no problems with using dolls but, its too time-consuming that kind of aspect should be something as optional and not something that should be forced on the play style as it removes a very important aspect of Tactical gaming, and that is "Variability". 

-1
Score : 40

I also think that rogue would be better if focused not only on bombs. =)...

0
Score : 17

Personally, I loved Fire rogue. Involved Lots of tactical combos/decisions that were awesome. Placing Firewall, Dragging enemies through it, Summoning Boombot, Having Boombot re-position the bombs, explode them for full effect, and Push the enemy away. Which in most cases the enemy still gets close. Looking at the new stuff has me elated to see what I can do with new Rogue. I like it. Curiosity killed the Ecaflip. But It came back with a bit of Cat-Nip.

0
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