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Class Revamp 2020 - Foggernaut

By [Ankama]WAKFU - ADMINISTRATOR - December 13, 2019, 16:00:15
Reactions 73
Score : 463

I've done a fanmade about how it would be if the FOGGERNAUTalso had a water branch, hopefully the developers are interested =)

https://www.wakfu.com/es/foro/153-steamers/149992-steamer-agua-toma-forma

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Score : 198

Hello all!

I'm just going to jump straight into my ideas:

1. I do not want a water branch. I think having the Stasis branch is a strong part of the fogger's identity.

2. Stasis should continue to use the strongest element of the player to hit the weakest element of the enemy. If the developers want to diminish the allure that the branch has than either reduce OR remove the 40 damage inflicted on stasis spells from Fogginator. If that isn't enough, then reduce the base damage of Ray of Stasis and Heart of Steam by a point or two.

3. Make 2 or 3 fire spells be single target and increase their base damage. Currently, the whole fire branch is AoE (with low base damage). Having 2 or 3 fire spells be single target with increased potency would make the branch more viable for dealing damage. I would recommend keeping Steampalm and Fire Fevor the same as they are useful in other situations.

4. To encourage players to use their fire and earth elements more often, I suggest adding secondary effects to the fire and earth spells that consume the "Stasified" state (Stasified is the state that is inflicted on the enemy whenever you hit them with any stasis spell). This idea would work similar to dizzy or riddled that panda and cra use. Below are some examples of secondary effects:

  - An earth spell consuming Stasified to:
        1. Remove 1 mp per 25 Stasified points consumed.
        2. Remove 100 dodge per 25 Stasified points consumed.
        3. Stabilize and consume all the Stasified points on the target.
  - A fire spell consuming Stasified to:
        1. Grant 1 ap per 30 Stasified points consumed.
        2. Grant 2 damage inflicted to fire spells per Stasified point consumed (duration of 1 turn).
        3. Steal 3 fire mastery per Stasified point consumed (duration of 2 turns).

Hope this helps!

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Score : 3874

Hmm, since stasis comes in form of a stasis gas, but can be condensed into stasili crystals which can be burned as fuel, what if fire and earth branches were aspects of stasis?

Instead of blocades, the foggernaut would summon stasili crystals spires, which would interact with their elemental spells.
Earth spells would make the crystals grow stronger and use hammers to store power in them to damage enemies if they hit them or link them across multiple cells to form more resistant walls.
Fire spells would ignite the crystals making them deal damage to adjacent enemies or push them around with explosions.

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Score : 50

and I always thought: d00d, foggernauts were previously sea explorers, how come no water branch?
And I say since fire branch is focused on (area) damage - but damage nonetheless - just substitute fire for stasis and make it long-range, or just make water long range. fire is usually useless in my opinion, but if the objective is to deal some damage, actual stasis has more than demonstrated to be capable of doing the job. I miss all the turrets by the way.

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Score : 917

 

Granthese|2019-12-14 16:52:35
I actualy use my Fogger as a tank, sure he doesn't deal much dmg, but he is not meant to tank alone, instead hold the boss for the rest of the team. In my case, he can have a 3k hp blockade every turn and 900 lock with 70% rest so my team is mostly unharmed unless the boss is a slippery one.

3k with 70% res at endgame is useless. you gotta have around 85% res at least and a 10k hp blockage otherwise one mob can delete your blockage. 70% is weak for a tank like really weak. + blockage can be moved, allies too so you have chances your blockades tank nothing.
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Score : 5273

Yeah my fogger atm has 85 res and fully buffed blockade has 9.5k hp. they are nice but its very seldom I get to keep them up with how mobs AOE both target and block. I wish that I didnt have to take most if not all my turn stomping the ground/block to be a tank. 

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Hi!
Wouldn't it be an option to give Foggernaut a small Huppermage like treatment in regards to where to implement the stasis spells? Like, in your spells deck where the Huppermage's Light spells are, put the Stasis spells for Foggernaut.

kind regards smile

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Score : 1599

 

Granthese|2019-12-14 07:52:35
I actualy use my Fogger as a tank, sure he doesn't deal much dmg, but he is not meant to tank alone, instead hold the boss for the rest of the team. In my case, he can have a 3k hp blockade every turn and 900 lock with 70% rest so my team is mostly unharmed unless the boss is a slippery one.




wana have practical tankernaut tip?

too bad giving it anyways fear my superior dummind in action for it is fearsome indeed. Before you take ur position enar the target to be tankked make 1-2 blokades in areas behind you far enough so boss cant hit em and use cybot to transfer em closer that lil robot can swithc places with a blokade so.

1st: turn before taking the place near boss blokade - stomp spam drop cybot take position
2nd: turn blockade up near the boss use cybot to build rails for movement if blokade survives Pummell it back to full while moving the other blockade or kades with cybot closer
3rd: when blokade is down the new one is now close enough to be moved to ur aura by cybot. (start building new secondary blokade 1 cell further than its aura and hence and repeat -- > goal try to have 2-3 max hp blockades up and keeping em up by healing with pummel and throwing low ap fire attacks with dead ap get the fire passive to compensate the earth conversion to fire. reasoning if you have high fire it will become decent earth so giving it small boosts with 2 ap fire spell is pretty amazing)

this cant be used on all bosses but the ones it work with its just a delight.. im a firm believer than foggernaut in pure tanking is just better than the feca whose main role seems to be just buffing people and itself (dont get me wrong fecas immunity abilities throw anything fogger has out of the god damn earth but as far as pure i can take that hit and survive mentality fogger is just better)


edit: for this style of pure defaince of meta you need the subli that gives you ap on wakfu usage or minus ap depanding on turn. But for example my foggy can on its ap turns get from 13 ap to 15 by not sacing any ap since many of fogs wakfu based abilities have no ap cost: meaning stomp or pummel activate fogginator or cy or what evs gain 2 ap back and keep using earth or fire to gain the buffs)
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Score : 80

Following the release in Beta, my two cents on the issue:

This is not a hate post, I'm not gonna whine that "Wakfu is dead" and whatnot, but please allow me to explain why I am dissatisfied at this update.

I'm disappointed in the removal of everything that made the fogger so unique, especially it's stasis path which... Well... Really did stick with the background of the character class ^^"

I didn't sign up for a tank, in the encyclopedia, the Foggernaut is depicted as a damager and controller first. The small tanking abilities were just a plus in case of crisis, as advertised. Tank is already covered in my team. It turns out my distance, single-target damage Foggernaut was geared on the earth element, so I'm really negatively impacted by this update.

What I liked in the Fogger was it's stasis mechanics which I found awesome as they made efficient damaging simpler, and the fact you didn't need LOS with the fogger eyes. This is the reason I chose and levelled this class. Now it's all crumbling down - all of it. On top of this, I suspect you are aware of the struggle of gearing up a character?

I hope we, distance foggernauts, will be offered a free re-class given these changes definitely make the class depiction in the encyclopedia obsolete.

If there is no re-class offered after such a big change in the core mechanics of this class, I will definitely feel like this is just a cash-grab to force the fogger player-base to buy a re-class for the price of a full-month of god booster. Which would definitely not be a smooth move, Ankama.

If a re-class is offered, then fair is fair and I'll just suck it up and rebuild my gear. Can't blame you for trying to bring change, despite my belief you just destroyed a good bit of diversity in this game by removing the Fogger's uniqueness compared to other classes.

Thanks for reading me

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Score : 3874

"It turns out my distance, single-target damage Foggernaut was geared on the earth element, so I'm really negatively impacted by this update.
...
I hope we, distance foggernauts, will be offered a free re-class given these changes definitely make the class depiction in the encyclopedia a lie."

You were a long distance earth fogger???

Also long distance fogger will still be a thing after the rework, you have a ton of passives that increase your damage and mobility at the cost of resistances, as well as overheating powers.
And no they haven't removed stasis, it's just costs WP instad of HP now.

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Score : 3874

 

Lonebard2|2020-02-21 01:26:05

cody5|2020-02-20 21:13:47
"It turns out my distance, single-target damage Foggernaut was geared on the earth element, so I'm really negatively impacted by this update.
...
I hope we, distance foggernauts, will be offered a free re-class given these changes definitely make the class depiction in the encyclopedia obsolete."

You were a long distance earth fogger???

Also long distance fogger will still be a thing after the rework, you have a ton of passives that increase your damage and mobility at the cost of resistances, as well as overheating powers.
And no they haven't removed stasis, it's just costs WP instad of HP now.




​​​​​Aye, my stasis element was Earth. You see my issue with this update? tongue
I will have to re-gear my entire character to stick to the now "allocated distance elements".

Basically I was building up pressure that then turned into overheat, then on the second turn getting on my rails in the Motherfogger state and starting damaging in my element: stasis (built on earth). Now you can use your one meager stasis spell after 4 to 6 turns of giving yourself a headache optimizing it using the old, boring same elements as all other classes, and deal 60k damage. Not really the announced nerf, is it? :/

Fogger is now also able to get 3k lock on the new build... Seriously... Now fogger will be unbeatable in PvP (imagine his WP leech against a Iop..?)

So not only do we get crazy values like this, but it's also completely random. This whole, atrociously long buildup, can be ruined if an enemy gets close enough. This also relies on building up WPs effectively. And if you change state, you lose all accumulated bonuses you spent the past 6 turns building up.

Overall, they turned the simple damager I loved and picked for its decent - if not slightly above other classes - damage (that could have been solved with a simple nerf), into a crazy, hard-to-play class that depends on many variables. They just made it more boring, tedious and randomly complicated for no reason. Now all spells have cast restrictions - the main nuke has a two-turns cool-down.

It's really not the same class at all, and it's ok if that was intended. But I believe players have a right to then change classes without being forced to pay extra real-life money when such a big change is made without their consent. All I wanted was a simple, different viable distance dmg than cra, that didn't require you to put as much thought in your play-style as a Rogue.

I mean, if I wanted a Rogue, I would have taken a Rogue. But I picked Foggernaut. Now they are basically the same...

As I said, I don't mind the change. But please Ankama, let use choose another class if we're disappointed like I am... I tried it, and I didn't enjoy it. If you remove the stasis as an element, I will not enjoy it and I am certain of it. Allow us to re-class smile 

Yeah they changed everything, you can be distance earth again.

But no you can't have foggers be cras, if you want a cra, play a cra.
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Score : 80

I wanted to play Fogger. Not Cra, not Rogue, not Hupper tongue
A class that does consistent stasis damage from a distance through its highest element, with a solution to LOS-blocking, and removing the need for constant resistance checking.

The latest patches made it better indeed smile 

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Score : 917

 

Lonebard2|2020-02-21 05:34:48
Following the release in Beta, my two cents on the issue:

This is not a hate post, I'm not gonna whine that "Wakfu is dead" and whatnot, but please allow me to explain why I am dissatisfied at this update.

I'm disappointed in the removal of everything that made the fogger so unique, especially it's stasis path which... Well... Really did stick with the background of the character class ^^"

I didn't sign up for a tank, in the encyclopedia, the Foggernaut is depicted as a damager and controller first. The small tanking abilities were just a plus in case of crisis, as advertised. Tank is already covered in my team. It turns out my distance, single-target damage Foggernaut was geared on the earth element, so I'm really negatively impacted by this update.

What I liked in the Fogger was it's stasis mechanics which I found awesome as they made efficient damaging simpler, and the fact you didn't need LOS with the fogger eyes. This is the reason I chose and levelled this class. Now it's all crumbling down - all of it. On top of this, I suspect you are aware of the struggle of gearing up a character?

I hope we, distance foggernauts, will be offered a free re-class given these changes definitely make the class depiction in the encyclopedia obsolete.

If there is no re-class offered after such a big change in the core mechanics of this class, I will definitely feel like this is just a cash-grab to force the fogger player-base to buy a re-class for the price of a full-month of god booster. Which would definitely not be a smooth move, Ankama.

If a re-class is offered, then fair is fair and I'll just suck it up and rebuild my gear. Can't blame you for trying to bring change, despite my belief you just destroyed a good bit of diversity in this game by removing the Fogger's uniqueness compared to other classes.

Thanks for reading me

I fully agree they killed the class. Can you imagine a 200 character fully geared with epic/relic runes that has wrong elements? isn't funny?
I also want a free re-class but I will still ask, please keep these changes only in beta, don't bring them into real servers.
I wanted a range DPS, I chose him and spent months and months, millions and million of kamas to gear him and after a single update I have to redo all over again? No wonder why so much people say this game is dead.
Why can't you guys rework like Riot do? When a dps/tank/support class gets a rework they still be a dps/tank/support they don't get turned into full tank with few damage that needs tons of conditions.
 
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Score : 80

I absolutely agree! And despite the latest updates making is better, I still can't picture a "ranged" damager that only has the possibility to attack in a straight line while moving on rails... That's still a lot of restrictions. Two linear restrictions, one for movement, one for placement-to-shoot, all-the-while getting less MPs with the few worthwhile ranged DPS passives. I mean, it doesn't make sense to me, it's like forcing the glass cannon to get close to enemies. It's frustrating to spend a whole turn doing nothing due to placement restrictions, because you can't shoot an enemy that is 5 squares away - as a distance damager.

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Score : 3874

 

Mael28|2020-02-23 01:01:35
  I fully agree they killed the class. Can you imagine a 200 character fully geared with epic/relic runes that has wrong elements? isn't funny?

...I honestly can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.
Lonebard2|2020-02-24 12:30:58
I absolutely agree! And despite the latest updates making is better, I still can't picture a "ranged" damager that only has the possibility to attack in a straight line while moving on rails... That's still a lot of restrictions. Two linear restrictions, one for movement, one for placement-to-shoot, all-the-while getting less MPs with the few worthwhile ranged DPS passives. I mean, it doesn't make sense to me, it's like forcing the glass cannon to get close to enemies. It's frustrating to spend a whole turn doing nothing due to placement restrictions, because you can't shoot an enemy that is 5 squares away - as a distance damager.

You aren't limited to linear spells uness you use the gunner mode? Also you have light alloy passive that gives you +1 MP, oil reserves for more damage if you have good range, moderator for even more damage in short fights and wakfu reactor for starting with 2 WP
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Score : 48

You also have Amputation of Gears which is free 2 levels of Overheating and High Pressure, which means free 1 range and damage (among other things). You can't lose it even if enemies get close/far from you. You can even turn the High Pressure into Overheating and you'll have a permanent 4 levels of Overheating.

I honestly don't know if they did test the class properly in the beta server or just noticed that their current equipment wouldn't work and started whining.

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Score : 9501

People are saying that distance damage dealer on Fogger was killed so i took the liberty of actually writing out a number comparison

Old Fogger was able to generate:
85% Damage inflicted for dist
[20% Overheating]
[25% Fogginator]
[25% Fire and Oil]
[15% Advanced Post]

New Fogger is currently able to generate:
80% Damage inflicted for dist
[60% Overheating (With Oil Reserve and Limit Remover)]
[20% Energy Moderator]

Thats a 5% damage inflicted difference, pretty small by comparison, the obvious downside is that new fogger takes time to build this damage, it is no longer free and instant, i personally believe this to be a good thing, because now the class isnt a basic 1 trick poney

Now the base damage
For the sake of simplicity, im not going to even look at the old Fire and Earth spells, because no one really used them anyway
For those that dont know, the Average DPA for an ST spell is 25, and the Average DPA for an AoE spell is 23, these numbers will fluctuate based on range of spell, aoe size, WP cost, etc etc

Old Fogger Stasis:
Stasis 1: ST Spell, 28 Dpa
Stasis 2: ST Spell, 29 Dpa
Stasis 3: ST Spell, 25 Dpa
Stasis 4: AoE Spell, 24 Dpa
Stasis 5: AoE Spell, 29 Dpa (Wp cost)
Extremely high Dpa on all the spells that are above average, not to mention all these spells innately target the weakest resistance, in my opinion, making them broken

New Fogger Spells:
Fire 1: AoE Spell, 23 Dpa
Fire 2: AoE Spell, 23 Dpa
Fire 3: ST Spell, 27 Dpa
Fire 4: ST Spell, 23 to 46 Dpa
Fire 5: ST Spell, 30 (Wp cost, Innate +20% dmg increaser)
Water 1: ST Spell, 23 Dpa
Water 2: AoE Spell, 23 Dpa
Water 3: ST Spell, 27 Dpa (Wp cost)
Water 4: AoE Spell, 27 Dpa
Water 5: AoE Spell, 23 Dpa
Earth 1: ST Spell, 21 Dpa
Earth 2: ST Spell, 23 Dpa
Earth 3: ST Spell, 21 Dpa (Up to 50% dmg increaser)
Earth 4: AoE Spell, 23 Dpa
Earth 5: AoE Spell, 29 Dpa (Wp cost)
The vast majority of the spells here are average with some breaking the mold with some incredibly high outputs, Stasis mode now makes ALL of these spells stasis, with no -hp downside like the old spells

The Old 12ap combo for Fogger was
>Ray of Stasis, Heart of Steam x2 for 338 Total base damage (not counting crit)
New Foggers 12ap output at dist, without WP is
>Charringx3 or Froth x3 for 324 Total base damage (not counting crit)
*Froth Requires a much larger investment into range, but it still does the job, while also being an AoE
*The total base damage difference is 14


If you choose to use Wp however, the 12ap combo total is
>Charring, Furnace, Flambe for 327 Base damage (not counting crit)
And if you chose to set up rails on a prior turn, you can cast Flambe on the rails
>Charring, Furnace, Flaming rails for 327 Base(69 pierces armor) or 396 base if you get Flaming rails to proc twice (138 pierces armor)

You can potentially push these numbers even higher if you plan ahead and use Cybot, which automatically attacks linear targets at the start and end of their turn, doing 84 damage at the start and end, thats 168 extra damage at max, and you can have 2 turrents, for 336 extra damage at max!

So to summarise:
If you play new fogger the exact same way as it used to, you lose 5% Damage inflicted and 14 Base damage, and the buildup is slower, with stasis locked behind an active
However if you try a new approach, use the WP, Use the new flaming rails and cybots, you can potentially Double your old output, it just takes more planning and intelligence

At the time of writing this, the Beta is still up, you're free to look into this yourself, and there are still changes to be made, feedback is always appreciated, because as you have seen, the GD's are reading your feedback
 

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Score : 80

Thanks for taking the time to write and test this! It's a nice read smile

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Score : 4192

Honestly, I'm really digging the new fogger. I wanted to make myself a melee/mid distance DPS for a while (since I have a Xelor and a Huppermage for long-distance fights) and also a tank, when I find Feca quite boring as a tank and Sacrier too risky for consistent protection. New foggernaut is amazing at tanking, here some of my favourite elements:

  1. Blockade: the increased range is heaven-sent and coming with full hp. 15% of fogger and same amount as armor is pretty neat, although I wonder if in Wakfu the armour health takes damage differently, I feel like its a wasted potential if it doesn't. Armor health could perhaps reduce damage taken by 10% or such, so its not just a fancy overheal.
  2. Microbots: Thank you so much for the microbots showing their range before placing it, makes it much easier to make rails faster.
  3. Gunner mode: Can place rails, can use all spells, I love it. The range limitation seems more than fair.
  4. Earth Branch: now THATS a tanking spell set, got armor generation, a pull, MP debuff, its perfect. Although I think Shebang could also generate armor, it costs a lot to be just raw damage.
  5. Fogginator: A great active to replace the old high pressure resistance gain.
  6. Stabilizing spell: Because no tank is complete without it.
  7. High pressure and Overheating: very interesting passives that require positioning and though instead of just spamming spells, now it feels more fluid to switch from Melee to range without making different decks and passives galore.

Once all spells are in english, I'll be able to study the spells and passives better, but so far Fogger seems much more straightforward and a better DPS/Tank. I managed to win against an Eliotrope who just couldn't escape me no matter how far were his portals xD
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Score : 3874

1. yeah i agree, as far as i know the only upside to armour is it doesn't give heal resistance, but i never understood why you would ever want to pick the "start with armour" instead of max HP
4. yes but you can heal for a lot if you hit multiple enemies in stasis mode

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Score : 6269

 

cody5|2020-02-26 04:55:12
1. yeah i agree, as far as i know the only upside to armour is it doesn't give heal resistance, but i never understood why you would ever want to pick the "start with armour" instead of max HP


It saves on bread between dungeon rooms without vast amounts of mid-combat healing.
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Score : 4192

Plus its more balanced to allow tanks to gain armor instead of raw healing, since usualy healing goes with your masteries while armor can be balanced on unchangeable numbers. If a spell says "heals 500 armor", you bet its gonna give you 500 armor, no more, no less, no matter what!

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Hello,

Please focus your feedback on this thread :

https://www.wakfu.com/en/forum/251-feedback/238591-1-67-feedback-foggernaut-class-revamp

Thanks !

Siu.

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Score : 3874

 

Granthese|2020-02-27 07:39:32
Plus its more balanced to allow tanks to gain armor instead of raw healing, since usualy healing goes with your masteries while armor can be balanced on unchangeable numbers. If a spell says "heals 500 armor", you bet its gonna give you 500 armor, no more, no less, no matter what!

Yes, but starting armour is %HP
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Score : 22

As a fellow distance single target built Foggernaut, these changes really force a different playstyle which feel alien to how I've played for more than a year now. Nonetheless I will remain open to what is envisioned and hope for the best for all of us.

I do recognize damage output is potentially higher given proper planning and with utilizing new mechanics while sacrificing our immediacy in damage. 

I am also glad to see melee/tank fog changes and better viability.

But I must ask:
Is the microbot/rail number cap really necessary? (I believe currently its 5 max with passive)

I understand this isnt an issue for most other foggernauts since they don't set up rails much either but I am a huge rail enthusiast and I maintain a build with 10 control. This is because I find much joy in placing lots of rails and really enabling different mobility options. (also its very aesthetically pleasing when I am able to make a 3x3 microbot grid of rails the size of the entire map) Now though, only being able to make 1 box of rails feels horrible.

I'd prefer the microbot cap still being based on your control. Maybe its unbalanced otherwise? I'm not sure.

Just my thoughts on rail changes.

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Score : 3874

they changed it to 5 without passive, 6 with passive
Also you will still be able to use controll for turrets (and after the CTRL rework, the control will make all your summons stronger)

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Score : 95

Can someone explain to me how the passive Unshakable Skeleton works? 

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Score : 3874

Your dodge gets lowered by 50% (halved) and your lock is increased by 200% (trippled)

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