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Class Revamp 2020 - Foggernaut

By [Ankama]WAKFU - ADMINISTRATOR - December 13, 2019, 16:00:15

Hello everyone,

Share with us your feedback about the proposed changes for Foggernaut.

Reply
First Ankama intervention

Hello,

There was a Live on the 18/12. We wanted to focus on your feedbacks and give your some answers, as well as giving some more information on our vision.
 

Foggernaut



A lot of feedback has been made on our proposal to make Stasis damage work as Light damage. You’re right, it was indeed weird and awkward from our part. We immediatly changed our approach on the matter. For now, we have two new leads we are serious about :
  • A water branch replaces the current Stasis branch. Stasis spells can either be unlocked in fight, or all Foggernaut spells deal Stasis Damage under certain conditions. It’s a dynamic and balanced path, that doesn’t betray the identity of the class.
  • The Stasis branch actually stays similar to what it currently is, but undergoes some gameplay adjustments that are necessary for balancing. We believe we are able to make something satisfying while keeping Stasis’ current behavior.

A few players also made points about the Motherfogger’s rigidity. It seems there was some kind of misundertanding between ourselves because we weren’t clear enough on the matter, so here’s the deal :

High Pressure is a bonus that increases Melee Damage, Block, and % Armor Given (for blockades). It’s a state, that will gain one level per turn.

When you cast Fogginator, you will gain a High Pression level. Fogginator also is a state on its own, that gives Resistance (100) and removes 1 max MP. You can deactivate Fogginator but keep the High Pressure increasing.

The same thing goes for the Motherfogger. You won’t need to stay on it to keep the Overheating mechanic going.



You can find the whole summary of what we said during the live, as well as a link to the english part of the live here : Click here

Thanks a lot for your feedbacks,

Siu.
See message in context
Reactions 73
Score : -108

The fogger could keep his damage capabilities and have his fire and earth branches improved. Which would make it more versatile as the fire and earth branches would be as good as the stasis branch.

3 -7
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Score : 334

Please do not remove stasis damage.

11 0
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Score : 4856

What if they made it target weakest element but uses your weakest element instead of strongest? Or average like before.

0 -1
Score : 151

The description wording has me a bit confused. I do like the idea of high pressure and overheating getting more attention, but at the cost of how stasis currently works... well I'll wait for the specific spell changes. Maybe they'll be good, maybe not. Too early to tell for me.
And just my two cents on the dev process I do think you guys will have better success focusing fixing the small things. The main issue I have playing fogger now are just some of the bugs I run into from time to time.

1 0
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Score : 82

stasis is so cool please leave it alone

9 0
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Score : 148

Having stasis nerfed to not reduce RES, fine that was actual balancing. Changing Stasis to be Light is just plain wrong. Now huppermage is less special....

I'm curious if anyone even used a fogger as a tank? Those blockades have way too little HP and spending an entire turn buffing their hp wasn't very productive.

High mobility? There is rails but you can't move through enemies on the rails. I have never thought fogger to have high mobility or have I been playing wrong?

4 0
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Score : 3930

I actualy use my Fogger as a tank, sure he doesn't deal much dmg, but he is not meant to tank alone, instead hold the boss for the rest of the team. In my case, he can have a 3k hp blockade every turn and 900 lock with 70% rest so my team is mostly unharmed unless the boss is a slippery one.

0 0
Score : 3930

I think Fogger could use a few tank-oriented changes:
-Blockades need to be stabilized
-Increase Blockade's AoE but maye limit it to straight line, most bosses have AoE dmg just enough to hit both fogger and blockade at the same time, so I feel like the darn thing needs just one more cell of reach.
-Give the fogger a way to grant himself armor.

1 0
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Score : 9518

If fogger gets some sort of -mp ability after this change, with the new High Pressure, Fogger will be able to perform like other locker/tanks, on the condition that blockades are substantially more viable

Stasis needed to be changed, its far too efficient, powering off highest element to hit weakest element with only some -hp to compensate is brain dead and effects to ability to gear the class
Turning stasis into "light" doesnt seem ideal however
Not because it "makes huppermage less special" because light has NEVER been unique to huppermage, you do light damage by swinging your weapon around, using Flaming(yes "flame"ing is light damage) and theres even a relic rune that gives you Light element poison

The reason why Fogger shouldnt have "light" per say is simply because it removes a bit of Foggers identity just from the naming
Option A) Change the way Stasis works, dont make it identical to light, but make it have its own identity
Option B ) Keep stasis as it is but make it less useable from turn 1, Make it only useable in a certain state or make it so certain Fire/Earth spells BECOME stasis when events are triggered in fight

6 -5
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Score : 11861
"We see an imbalance when the class's offensive capabilities are combined with high mobility, defense and protection capabilities, and infinite stabilization"

It's first cognitive error, high mobility of fogger is associated with rails, tho by nature fogger want to trade range for more dmg in fact staying still in midrange from opponents. Rails are extremly important for team simply 1mp=3cells is amazing. But due to enemy (or braindead teammate) that can simply stand on your path or enemy next to rails to stop your slide is a big downside. The only huge mobiliti is rails+turretmode+passive that let u for 1mp move everywhere on rails, but it have the downside of 20%dmg inf less then fogginator that tune down the offensive capbilities you're talking about. Fogger have also one mediocre dash for 4ap 1wp that is pitiful compered to other classes that pay way less and can travel often or much far distances. So I would acctually say that telling fogger have high mobility is highly missleading on your side 

Defence and protection capabilities that nobody use bc it's waste of the turn, stacking barickade for whole turn is waste of time. It's razorgrab on your side to assume fogger have usage of these mechanics. It's usefull only in dead turns when u really have nothing else to do. Fogger secrifice huge chunk of hp every turn the only real defencive mechanism is fogginator that give additional 100 res. Expect of that I found it really really poor argument.

Infinite stabilization is really usefull mechanic for ppl that know how to play, for newbies it's their curse and worst nightmere. Removing it will be really painfull for doing a lot of content on high stasis or many endgame UBs, a pity. But need to agree that permastab was a design problem  that need to be fixed.

"In addition, the class lacks burst possibilities, and the Fire and Earth paths struggle to find where they fit in alongside the Stasis spells. There are concepts with an interesting theme and identity about this class, which are completely annihilated by a role consisting of using the few very powerful damage spells it has."

It's not stasis branch falut that earth and fire are mostly unintresting (expect bombardment that is really cool use it more often grasshoppers) the problem of earth and fire are unfiting mechanisms, mediocre dmg, weird shapes of aoes, 5AP and 6AP PUSH AND PULL THAT REQUIRE 2AP BARRIER TO WORK (wtf). These are problems that completly stop me from using these 2 elements, they are boring, weak dmg wise compering to all other dds, akward to use. 

We have enough of setup -> nuke type of classes, stop with that. Consistant dmg is what this game need. The dungeons are designed that way. If u wanna invite us to set up more and play in time, Ill strongly advice revamping STASIS LVL SYSTEM in dungeons not changing class to force us to play that way.

"Stasis damage will become Light damage (like for the Huppermage)."

Stasis too strong? Might be. But removing the key identity of foggernaut and replace it by light??? How the hell u wanna explain it in game? Why light dmg type, it doesnt make sense at all. So now Ill be atacking with light and have nuke, am I hupper 2.0? It's the biggest anticlimatic change that I ever saw in game. It's like replacing Zeus thunders with fishes.

"Blocks will still be there to tank or help tank, but you can no longer spend your whole turn on them to improve their effectiveness."

Good and intresting change, that make barriers as a tool much more intresting and fitting into right situation rather then make them a waste of time.

"Becoming a Fogginator increases and maintains High Pressure. The Foggernaut gains close-combat damage and Resistances with each turn."
This concept is so cringy and akward. Im sorry but I cant stand that. Melee fogger with increased with each turn Res, FoW and Melee dmg each turn, what's that Ougi's Pray 2.0? It just feel super weird and I dont like it. The only hope is that maybe with some shields/mp steal/stabs on enemy/lock it can be usable as nice pvp class, in theory nicely stacked it can resist a lot but still we need to return to core of wakfu, game punish you for wating and playing slow.

"Entering Turret mode increases and maintains Overheating. The Foggernaut gains ranged damage and Range with each turn."

Cream della cream xD Ill be chained to rails and turret mode if I will want to specialize and get bosts to range dmg. And who will keep me rails goin and create more? My cybot that die from 1 attack on every lvl range higher stasis? xD Im sorry it's so wrong, without complete overhaul and granting cybot survi and huge mobility it's just a joke, rails stay 5 turn on the field every mistake makes future play and setuping a nightmere.


As ending I really wanted foggernaut revamp, bc fogger simply was boring. Earth and Fire were so blant (expect bombardment) that I couldnt even look at them. But when I hear about melee distance switches and interactions between them on fogger it make me feel sick. The devlog is so vauge that we know nothing about changes. but from first impression and my knowlage about the game on almost every lvl tier I just see how unusable it might be and that discurage me a lot.

Waiting for more informations,
Percy
14 -3
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Score : 4856

I think the problem is you expect all the non-mentioned mechanics to sty the same, if they revamp the motherfogger mode to be a fire support form, I bet they will give them ability to place rails in that form and stuff.

0 0
Score : 1258
"Stasis damage will become Light damage (like for the Huppermage). Spells and passives will let you change elements dynamically through bonuses or conversions of Elemental Masteries."
So stasis can be any elements? I see this as an opportunity to make fogger even more unique. Rid them of all elemental spells and just have stasis spells like the machines they are!


 
3 0
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Score : 415

After giving it some careful thought, there are a few things that I have to say about the Stasis damage removal and change to light that has been proposed. 

1. Removal of a unique and signature mechanic. 
Fog's stasis is something that makes them different damage wise from other classes. It gives us the ability to be consistent damage wise and stands out as a strong point of our lore. It has gotten hit with the nerf stick enough imo. The real issue here is that stasis is just a better option that fire and earth. You might see it and its mechanics as over powered, but its OP compared to the poor F&E spells on offer. 
2. Changing to light wont fix the problem
This is something I haven't seen anyone bring up yet. By changing stasis to light damage you are (essentially) making it either fire or earth damage spells. Here is the kicker: Stasis has the best DMG/AP cost for its spells over F&E. Even if you change those I bet that stasis spells will still outperform them. Meaning that you haven't addressed the real issue at play. Stasis will still be the better choice over F&E since they still wont be able to properly outperform stasis. You will just be making a situation where your elemental damage of choice makes your own branch useless compared to stasis. Stasis will still come out on top, and just be less efficient than pre-nerf stasis. At the end of the day you failed to make F&E spells more relevent and useful.

There is the other possiblity too: Making stasis into light damage and also revamping F&E would make stasis the branch that becomes useless. If F&E get solid revamps then they will have more utility and be on an equal damage foothold. Therefore, why would anyone use a stasis spell? It might do more damage but the downsides of self harm are still there and the new F&E spells would be better for utility and self buffing. 

The long and short of it is this: By making stasis into light you either will not fix the issue of F&E being irrelevant or you will make stasis irrelevant. You are in either case taking away fog's one unique mechanic and hurting us in both lore and constancy of damage. 

3 0
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Score : 6259

Imho, Foggernauts just need a third normal element (Water or Air), and then a conversion mechanic that can turn 'all' their spells into Stasified versions.

Just let it keep damaging the weakest resistance. The 'light' damage theme thing gives more personality to the Huppermage, a class otherwise having ZERO personality left - not to mention that seeing light damage on Stasis spells breaks the immersion completely.

0 0
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Score : 4856

Ah immersion, like foggenauts spontaneously generating energy hammers for earth spells or fecas summoning spontanious lightning and shushus with fire spells

0 0
Score : 4856

Honestly while replacing stasis with light would make thing simpler, and would make for a cool thematic (modular robot augments so you can change your elements in fights), I think stasis still has a place in the fogger's arsenal with some adjustments.
It can still have the ability to do damage in the weakest element of the target, but the rel problem is that it uses your STRONGEST element, witch just makes it a "perfect element" for every occasion, I think this could be fixed by either going back to it being the average of all your elements, or more simply, just using the elemental mastery of the element it is hitting in, making you either be good in all elements or just focus on one, giving you an elemental branch of your choice.

Secondly I would rework the heating/pressure mechanic, I like that it works like a class who starts slow but ramps up over time, but I quite disliked how they were so specialised, making it inefficient to swap between them mid fight, like panda does with merry/tired, and are all around a bit of a mess because:
Heating: Bonus damage, range (good for ranged DD), but deals melee aoe flaming-like damage, which is useless since you don't want to be in melee with enemies
Pressure: Gives block, FoW and resistance (for tanking), but only gives armour to other allies in melee which only works if your allies are also in melee with you and combined with no way to get armour yourself besides spending AP on blocks makes you a bad tank

I think that heating and pressure could be more simplified, they can still transform into each other with a spell, but you should only have one of them active at a time:
Heating: At the end of your turn deals fire damage to adjacent enemies at lvl 25 (2 range at lvl 75), melee attacks against you trigger a counter (like a melee ardent aegis), raises your fire mastery, +1 AP every 100 levels
Pressure: At the beginning of your turn, pushes back everyone adjacent by 1 cell at lvl 25 (2 at lvl 75), ranged attacks against you give you Steamed which gives you bonus MP, raises your earth mastery, +1range every 50 levels

0 0
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Score : 6259

 

cody5|2019-12-15 06:53:38
Ah immersion, like foggenauts spontaneously generating energy hammers for earth spells or fecas summoning spontanious lightning and shushus with fire spells


Sure, that works. And aesthetically I'm sure Stasis spells will keep looking the same. Mechanically, I could even get behind Stasis spells behaving like 'light' spells somewhat (Although I still find it bridging over into the Huppermage's 'thing' too much).
What bothers me is seeing the equivelent of a Fire Spell dealing Water damage on the fineprint.
Effectively it's the terminology they use for the mechanic that makes this awkward as hell. I associate Light with Wakfu, Darkness with Stasis, as many others likely do.
0 0
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Score : 4856

Light actually has nothing to do with wakfu, light is just quadremental breeze, a mixture of all 4 elements. Also it's not just a hupper "thing", most classes have light damage, huppers just specialise in it.
On the other hand stasis (which has nothing to do with darkness, darkness is not a thing in wakfu unless you count some sram spells) does actually deal elemental damage, the element just changes considering what the target is weak to.

But personally I would like to see stasis stay as an element, they just have to make it the opposite of light.
Light uses your strongest mastery and deals damage in that element,
so Stasis should deal damage in their weakest element and use your corresponding mastery (so if the enemy is weak to air, it uses your air mastery and do air damage).

0 0
Score : 41

Hello,
i am rather new to this game and have not done any late-game content, so take what i say with a grain of salt, but is the current selection of ranged dd not this?:

  • Xelor: great mobile ranged aoe dd with some debuff(-ap,..)
  • Cra: agile ranged dd with debuffs(-mp,...)
  • Eliotrope: mobile ranged dd with buffs (portals)
  • Foggernaut: the big glass cannon. great ranged dd with a lot of negative constraints to reach maximum potential damage (selfdamage from fogginator or stasis spells; very bad melee damage,if passives for ranged; only straight firing lines (with LOS required for most) if not on motherfogger and if on motherfogger you are restrained to rails, which are often blocked) but it is viable in almost every dungeon, because of stasis targeting the lowest res.

So the Foggernaut really shines only with a good team (positioner and healer or damage mitigator).
The whole team is working towards the moment the foggernaut can unleash his damage and make all the debuffs and buffs and positioning in the previous turns worth it.
That is why they are so bad in pvp (and that is as it should be) and so good in a proper pve team.
If you want revamp the Foggernaut, please make sure this potential is not lost, as i cannot currently find any alternative character filling this role. If it is felt that the damage potential is too great in its current form, put some additional constraints on it (e.g. stasis damage has to be unlocked by transforming into fogginator or motherfogger or increase the health loss inflicted by stasis spells...), so that a skilled team can still unleash the foggernauts damage.

If you want to make a viable Tank-Foggernaut (which is really appreciated, especially now that we need more possible tank builds, since the fecas are supposed to transition to support role), please take a look at the fire-earth-overheating mechanics and the spell branches. especially fire has a lot of different ranged aoes with no real purpose (ranged aoe seems to be xelors role, but he is getting revamped too xD).
These spell slots could be used for tanking spells. Be careful though to keep the tank-build and the damage-build strictly seperate ( eg: a passive increasing "damage dealt", also increases "damage received" in some form or lowers lock or armor generated or...). It wont do, if our glass cannon foggernaut can suddenly tank too smile


TL;DR: Do not revamp the whole stasis branch for now. It is what defines Foggernauts and if it is too strong, tweak it a bit and do not demolish it, at least not without providing an alternative for a strong ranged dd. If the light damage does this, its great, but then why would you change stasis to light in the first place? (and you must admit, that stasis is lore-wise better). Rather focus on the earth and fire branch, to give Foggernaut a viable alternative (tank) build (which would bring sustain and maybe even elevate the foggernauts pvp capabilities)

Thanks for listening to me smile

Laudividni
1 0
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Score : 1258

What if stasis spells were limited in usage. Similar to hupper's situation. Use fire/earth spells to bring it back up. We can call it stasis energy, that way you can combine the spells together. Use fire to increase overheating then finish off with a stasis attack. Use earth to up blockades and build high pressure to then use a stasis shield?




 

0 -2
Reply

Hello,

There was a Live on the 18/12. We wanted to focus on your feedbacks and give your some answers, as well as giving some more information on our vision.
 

Foggernaut



A lot of feedback has been made on our proposal to make Stasis damage work as Light damage. You’re right, it was indeed weird and awkward from our part. We immediatly changed our approach on the matter. For now, we have two new leads we are serious about :
  • A water branch replaces the current Stasis branch. Stasis spells can either be unlocked in fight, or all Foggernaut spells deal Stasis Damage under certain conditions. It’s a dynamic and balanced path, that doesn’t betray the identity of the class.
  • The Stasis branch actually stays similar to what it currently is, but undergoes some gameplay adjustments that are necessary for balancing. We believe we are able to make something satisfying while keeping Stasis’ current behavior.

A few players also made points about the Motherfogger’s rigidity. It seems there was some kind of misundertanding between ourselves because we weren’t clear enough on the matter, so here’s the deal :

High Pressure is a bonus that increases Melee Damage, Block, and % Armor Given (for blockades). It’s a state, that will gain one level per turn.

When you cast Fogginator, you will gain a High Pression level. Fogginator also is a state on its own, that gives Resistance (100) and removes 1 max MP. You can deactivate Fogginator but keep the High Pressure increasing.

The same thing goes for the Motherfogger. You won’t need to stay on it to keep the Overheating mechanic going.



You can find the whole summary of what we said during the live, as well as a link to the english part of the live here : Click here

Thanks a lot for your feedbacks,

Siu.
Reply
Score : 4856

So the idea is to either use fogginator, which makes you tankier every turn or use motherfogger which raises your damage every turn?
While I understand the theme, thi raises a lot of questions:
1. If it just raises passively each turn, it seems a bit uninteractive? Just a spell that you have to use on turn 1 then forget about it?
2. How long will the transformations last? What happens to the states if you deactivate that mode? Do you keep it, loose it or does it convert to the opposite state?
3. Will motherfogger still only be able to move on rails? Will you be able to cast normal spells while on a motherfogger?

As for stasis, I like the idea of it being a 4th elemental branch on the 3rd spellbar that you "unlock" in the fight.
My suggestion is that likehuppers with QB, foggers would have stasis points instead of WP and you start the fight with 0, but stasis spells are cast using SP instead of AP (unlike light spells which require both), making them a resource you generate during the fight, kinda like liberator charges on masq.

1 0
Score : -2776

This class will be cool if a taret summon mechanism like Puddly in a apple barrel that aattacks when in line.
This class will be cool without rail on the path but robots which turn into Laser Gun kiosk at points with armor protection.
This class will be cool if a switchable magnetic tool mechanism to push pull allies,enemies on a line "like in grand orrok dungeon" and "1 tile iron walls" to create its battlefield walls for this advantages.  

0 -4
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Score : 6259

Well, seeing the Water branch idea with a 'Stasis' mode is definitely my vote, for obvious reasons - Thank you for being inspired with my idea! biggrin

I am secretely hoping for Fire to bring back the persistant fire/oil idea, with places being on fire for several turns. The water tree could even be based around oil and its use (Slippery/movement), and then synnergise with fire for zoning damage. Or Earth as a consumptive resource to bolster the defense nodes.

 

1 -2
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But... I had that idea first...!

Score : -2776

 

[Ankama]WAKFU-Prod|2019-12-18 14:41:38
But... I had that idea first...!

well taret and laser kiosk are mine, just saying...
1 -4
Reply

Uh, it's okay, you can keep those. sad

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