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Azael tells you about GvG
2013-06-07 16:00 By [Troyle] 52
Today we offer you a Q&A sessions with Azael, to talk in details about the GvG feature, coming in the next update. Clarifications, Information and even spoilers are on the menu!

First let us clarify one thing, although we announced that this feature would be released with this update, we finally decided to postpone it to the next one.

Can you tell us why?

We wanted to give more time to guilds to get used to the new system, with the revamp implemented this month, and work a bit more on the GvG rules. This should also give us more time to talk to the community and make sure we match their expectations.

So, how does GvG work in WAKFU?

As we explained already, it’ll be based on Prims (yes Prims, not Prisms). These Prims are like big crystals that will be placed everywhere in the world, one in each region to be precise. Any region with a Clan Member will have a Prims. And we will also place one in each Haven World. The idea is that a guild will be able to take control of a Prims by attacking it, for a kama cost. If the attackers win the fight, they take control of the Prims. The more Prims you have, the more bonuses!

But they don’t get the Kamas back?

No, they don’t get them back. Kamas are destroyed no matter if you win or lose the fight.

What do we gain by taking a Prims?

First you will get bonuses, that are still under balancing right now. They will mostly be PvP orientated. There is currently a limit of 3 Prims that can give you bonuses. A guild can control more, but they will only stack the bonuses from 3 Prims.

There will also be PvE bonuses in the region of the Prims. For example in the Thicket of Yurbut, the whole guild will have a bonus there in PvE.

How does the Ladder work?

There will actually be two ladders, PvE and PvP. They will work similarly: when you accomplish specific actions, you gain ranking points. It’ll be pyramidal. It’s like if you had 10 grades, the higher the grade the less guilds you’ll find. The ladder will update every week, and your grade will be decided based on the points you won, but you should note that each guild will also lose points every week. This mechanic should limit the amount of inactive guilds with high grades.

Is there a mechanic allowing us to show off a bit? Can we show that we control a region?

Absolutely. It’s a PvP system, so you should be able to brag! With the grades, we’re trying to implement a visual effect based on the grade you have. It will also unlock PvP rewards, like real PvP oriented gear. We’re talking about real sets here, with stats, but usable only in PvP, be it GvG or aggressions.

So you gain points by starting aggressions?

No, you will only gain points in GvG, so by attacking Prims. This decision was made because we don’t want to encourage aggressions. Note however that you’ll gain points when attacking but also defending a Prims.

So you gain conquest points, and then you can spend them in machines like a currency?

Well, you won’t spend the points! The points you gain are only for your ranking. It will unlock content directly. There will indeed be machines where you can buy items, that will unlock based on your grade, but they will very likely cost Kamas.

Can guilds ally with each other? Or is it free for all?

We received many requests for an alliance feature, and we always wanted to implement it, although it could take some time to implement. I’ll give you some hints though, for the long run. We would like guilds to be able to ally with Nations. The details have yet to be designed, but you could decide to fight for Brakmar, or any other Nation. In the end we’d like to reach a real conquest system, since the existing conquest feature will be revamped at the end of the year, and will use the Prims system.

Guilds alliances should arrive at the end of the year as well. You would be able to ally with another guild and attack or defend Prims together.

So there won’t be any alliances before the end of the year?

Indeed, not before. We designed the GvG system with this idea in mind, and we will add it when we revamp the conquest system, at the end of the year. The current conquest system has a main issue: if we don’t implement conquest islands, it’s because we need to create a Clan Member, so a boss that can be fought. In terms of development, it’s as much work as a Ultimate Boss. So either we implement a conquest island, either a UB. We want to find a lighter system, which would allow us to implement much more. That’s why we went for the Prims system, and will make each island conquerable; even the adventure islands such as Sadida Kingdom or even Frigost.

However, you won’t have to belong to a Nation to conquer. In the end you could have Bonta and Brakmar fighting for a region and an independent guild take it under their nose and take the bonus for themselves.

So you can have an Outlaw or Anarchist guild that will mess with Nations?

Absolutely! Basically we like the idea that if you have a big alliance between guilds, it’s almost like a new Nation. I talked about bonuses with the Prims, but the conquest system will stay similar to what it is currently. You will conquer an island and receive a bonus in the theme of the island.

How does a Prims attack work? How much does it cost?

How much? No final decision was made yet. We will inform the players as soon as possible to get their feedback. It’s something sensible to balance, since all guilds have varying wealth. The goal of GvG is to allow small guilds to participate.

So we won’t implement too high costs. There is also the fact that we have several servers, all with their own economy. The only thing that is sure yet, is that the attackers will have to pay, and each group member will have to pay to participate in the fight.

You should know also that it’ll be 6 vs 6. We preferred to stay at this scale for now, since it’s the one we handle best.

How does it work if you’re the only member of your guild online when your Prims is attacked?

That’s where a new mechanic kicks in, that we call protectors, or guardians. There will always be 6 defenders on a Prims. If no player is available, NPCs will spawn to defend the Prims. Our goal is of course not to make them stronger than players, but we also want to make sure that it’s not too easy to capture a Prims at night. If you attack with only 2 players, you probably won’t make it, but if you attack with a full team with PvP gear, you shouldn’t have much trouble defeating these NPCs.

So it’s like fighting a group of lvl 200 monsters?

Indeed! It’s only to avoid single aggressions. If a guild wants to take control of a Prims, it’ll have to be an organized attack.

Then there’s also the case where you’ll have only 2 defenders. 4 monsters will spawn to join the 2 players. The first player to join the fight will be named Leader. This Leader will have two powers: the first one allows him to pass on his title, and the second allows him to manage his team. He will be able to decide which players join, and chose the NPCs that will help in the fight (if necessary). There’ll be healers, damage dealers, etc. like in a normal group. Also, the Leader will control the NPCs during the fight. They will only use their AI if there is no player in the fight.

But only the member of your guild can participate in the fight, right?

Yes. We may change this when we have alliances, but for now only guild members can attack or defend together. When a fight begins, you will have a timer (for the moment we went for 1 and a half minute) to let you organize your teams. At the end of this timer, the combat begins. If there’s only one attacker, he will stay alone. And as soon as an attack begins, the Prims is locked for the members of the attacking guild.

So what happens if you’re on the other side of the world when an attack begins?

The attackers will have to go there on their own. If they want to attack, they better organize… Defenders will get an automatic teleport from almost anywhere in the world, except the respec instance, haven bags… Basically any area that does not allow teleportation.

Another thing about the defender NPCs: can we unlock new ones?

There will be a basic pack, from which you can chose. The first ones you’ll get will be a normally balanced group, with healers, support, damage dealer and tanks. They will have only a few spells however, and won’t be that strong. But you can unlock new ones. For now we want to offer two options: with guild bonuses that can be bought with guild points, and with a specific building that can be built in your Haven World.

But this won’t be available in this update?

No, it’ll be added in July with the GvG.

So these mobs will be level 200? Since GvG fight you automatically level you up to 200.

The idea is to let everyone participate in PvP. Since spells will level up to 200, we can also level characters to 200 automatically. Concretely: Your HP will increase (5 per level), and your spells will level up with the same ratio as you currently have, but as if your character was 200. So if you have a spell level 100 and another level 80, they’ll be 200 and 160.

Won’t that affect the strategies of players?

They might need to rebuild their characters a little for GvG. We will test it, and see how it goes. The last things that we can’t level up automatically are the ability points, since these are direct players decisions. But that’ll also give you a reason to keep leveling up normally!

Same with the equipment, a higher level player will always have an advantage?

Well there are two things to keep in mind. First, a player invested in PvP will have PvP equipment that can be used with a level 1 character, so without any level limitation. The only limitation will be the grade. Their stats will be quite interesting, and a player who doesn’t like PvE will be able to play and equip himself mostly only in PvP, except when it comes to leveling his character. I just want to remind you however that this equipment will not work in PvE, so you won’t be able to farm PvP to get your stuff and use it against a UB.

Is there a limitation regarding Prims control?

Right now, no. We assume that a Guild will have to defend its Prims and the more it has, the harder it is to defend.

However there are many points we’d like to discuss with the community, such as the possibility to lock a Prims. If I attack a Prims then it will be locked for some time during which nobody will be able to attack it (right now we’re thinking about one hour). It might be a bit short, but we also want to keep a very dynamic system. This can still change and we will talk about it with the community to see what the expectations are. We want something solid for the end of the year.

Can you tell us more about the Structure system?

Yes, each Prims has 20 Structure points that work a bit like HP. They have several purposes. First, controlling a Prims shouldn’t be free, and these Structure points should limit the amount of Prims a guild can control. Without giving precise numbers, a Prims will automatically lose 1 Structure Points every X hours or X days. When it reaches 0, it becomes neutral and cannot be attacked for 3 days. After these 3 days, anyone can attack it and it comes back with only 5 Structure Points. Guilds will have to pay Kamas to give back SP to their Prims. This should create a link between GvG and PvE.

There is something else that you should know: we want to limit the amount of turns a Prims fight can last. Right now, we’re thinking about 10 turns. If the attackers didn’t defeat all defenders after these 10 turns, we consider the defenders as winners. However, to prevent strategies that could be “too” defensive, we also implemented the following: The Prims will lose Structure Points during the fight. So the defending guild could lose its Prims even if they win the fight, if this one lasted for too long.

This should help prevent passive defenses and tactics that could be considered as negative?

Exactly. We don’t want to encourage non-fair play tactics. There will be other mechanics implemented to limit abuses, such as a limit in the amount of turns a Sram can stay invisible in GvG.

I want to specify something else about Structure Points: If the attackers win the fight, the Prims doesn’t lose SP. It’ll come back directly to the amount it had before the fight. You will of course still have to choose your targets wisely, since attacking a Prims with only 1 SP might not be such a good decision.

So it could also be a tactic to keep your Prims at only 1 or 2 SPs, although it’s not without risks?

It’s risky, since it means that you’ll need very aggressive defenses. Our goal is to add strategy not only to the fight itself, but the way you approach it, and the Prims you choose to attack. You should also know that Prims will become some kind of Zaaps, and you will be able to teleport directly to a Prims.

For free?

We’re not decided yet.

With Haven Worlds, Guild revamp, PvP, GvG, what happens to those who don’t have guilds?

We wanted to have this “community pack”, since we’re still talking about a MMO here. WAKFU has many community features, such as politics (that will also be revamped at the end of the year). We have to make sure that these features are solid enough to allow other revamps (like conquests). Maybe those who don’t have a guild will even find more incentive in joining one now. Even a small guild will already be able to participate in GvG. After all, you only need to be 6 to attack a Prims.

We really want to encourage players to group up in guilds. I know that many players complain about things like crafting, especially because it’s very much a solo feature, but it’s one of the things that are being reviewed. A note about crafting for handymen: we want to implement deployable structures, like canons, war machines, etc. that will be crafted by handymen. They will have a significant use in Dungeons built in your Haven Worlds, and in conquest!

You talked about a politics revamp for the end of the year, will the guild system be linked to it?

Absolutely. At first we were only supposed to develop Haven Worlds and GvG. But since these two features impacted guilds, we decided to revamp the guilds to improve the system. In the long run we’d like to give more powers to governments, for example when an island like Frigost is implemented, it wouldn’t be accessible directly. Governments would have to build boats to bring their citizens there. They wouldn’t do it alone of course, but trigger special guild quests or “contracts” for their allied guilds.

There is also something about the members of a guild. If a player decides to leave his guild, he will lose 50% of his PvP and PvE points, but all his points will be removed from the Guild total. So a player will have a big impact on his guild, and guilds will have a big impact on the game.

So the player can also boost the new guild he will join?

Exactly. Recruitments will have to be handled carefully, since you don’t want to recruit someone who’ll benefit from your guild and then leave you.

We noticed that the politic feature didn’t really motivate the players, so instead of asking the players to singularly contribute to the political life of their nation, we will ask guilds to do it. A governor will have to rely on the guilds of his Nation to improve it, be it in conquest or content.

So we should expect blood, tears and treason?

We surely hope so! Guilds will be able to ally, or not, to Nations. Many players will want to have their own islands, but you should note that we still want to give specific bonuses and quests to the guilds allied to a Nation.

To summarize, what exactly will we have in the June update in regards to GvG?

Only the Prims in all regions and in the Haven Worlds, but they won’t be activated. There will also be a notion of Conquest Points in several interfaces, but also not active yet.

So mostly “greyed out” content until July. And what exactly should we expect for July?

The whole GvG feature: the ladder, Prims and Haven Worlds that can be attacked, all PvP rules such as the automatic level up, and also the fact that you will no longer see your opponent’s position during the placement phase. You will now have to use strategy when choosing your position, and no longer spam positions until the fight begins (only in PvP. The PvE system stays the same as usual). And you will also be able to change your equipment during the placement phase in both PvP and PvE.

We will also implement new buildings for your Haven Worlds with each patch. For July it’ll be a PvP building.

And so, Politics and alliances with Nations will come later?

End of the year. We want a solid but open basis, and take the players feedback into account, which is what I’m trying to do on the forums. We already changed many things by just listening to them, and we want to keep it that way. So we want to have a few months before implementing the conquest system and politic revamp in order to work with the community and improve the other feature as much as possible.

By [Troyle]

Categories Game Design
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AsuraBrasilX 25 June 2013 - 18:09
All will be level'd to 200? Best PvP Gear at level 1? The only reason to level up is because of the Support Skills now? Please, revise this, we don't want people creating new character and being more stronger than a person that is High level and wasn't able to have pvp gear.
About the relaitonship of Politics and Guillds i aproves, the currently Politic system really don't motivated me.

(Xillor-The-Shadow @ 25 June 2013 08:59) *
Uhg guys.. don't screw this up. This game is already hanging by a thread. PvP gear is VERY bad idea. I don't want to have to buy a second set, I'm already wiped out from months of mining and dungeon running and I don't even have UB gear yet. But why would that matter? You're starting to split your game into two. I can't afford to buy sets to do both PvE and PvP

This game was great during it's betas even though it had it's flaws. It has some potential. But lately I'm having a hard time keeping up with this game's random and un-necessary developments and I'm getting ready to just quit.
I agree, i played on the beta and only now i came back. Haven Worlds and GvG are good updates but spliting the game into PvP and PvE will definetely have a great impact.

I wish that they revise that thing about the PvP Gear, it's really bad to work so hard for a gear that was good for both and now have to invest in a set just to don't lose for everyone on pvp. :/

This resembles of another game (RO), that focused only in PvP and GvG resulting in its crumbling.

Just to refrain, that thing about being level 200 is really bothering me, it's like all my efforts to be high level being in vain!

The Defenders NPCs can be at Guild is Average Level, so it'll encourage people of the guild leveling up as well.

The idea of low levle being able to have some fun in GvG is'n bad but this will desencourage people of leveling.
I respect the try to make it different, but GvG is really a "End Game Feature".
Xillor-The-Shadow 25 June 2013 - 08:59
Uhg guys.. don't screw this up. This game is already hanging by a thread. PvP gear is VERY bad idea. I don't want to have to buy a second set, I'm already wiped out from months of mining and dungeon running and I don't even have UB gear yet. But why would that matter? You're starting to split your game into two. I can't afford to buy sets to do both PvE and PvP

This game was great during it's betas even though it had it's flaws. It has some potential. But lately I'm having a hard time keeping up with this game's random and un-necessary developments and I'm getting ready to just quit.
Teladoph 23 June 2013 - 00:55
This is totally wrong!

I have only one thing to tell you: Open the training room for free respecs and test whatever you want!

Free entrance for the training room until you guys think this testing party is over!

Enough is enough. Revise how much visits on the training room has been taken place so far and Im sure you guys might have some good graphics to analise.

I have no motivation anymore to read anything about those changes.
Major-Slyme 20 June 2013 - 21:37
It would be cool if we could skill ourselves for PvP and PvE and then change it depending on what we are about to do.
Gynrei 14 June 2013 - 20:36

(WhaleMan @ 14 June 2013 18:23) *
I just have a relatively important question. Seeing as this is a strategy game, "Best" is a relative term in some respects because it should be based on how your strategy is composed.

Will there be many different types of PvP equipment that will allow people to strategically pick equipment to best suit their strategic needs? For example, is there some class specific equipment OR equipment that focuses on a particular mechanic (like perception, leadership, mechanics, etc.)?

They will certainly have to make many different gear sets. How will treasure tracker for Enu's be taken into account. PvP gear should have no need for Prospecting.

On the plus side. With everyone being level 200 for PvP purposes, we should have more lateral gear progression. No need for Ankama to focus on anything lower than level 200 PvP gear.
WhaleMan 14 June 2013 - 18:23
I just have a relatively important question. Seeing as this is a strategy game, "Best" is a relative term in some respects because it should be based on how your strategy is composed.

Will there be many different types of PvP equipment that will allow people to strategically pick equipment to best suit their strategic needs? For example, is there some class specific equipment OR equipment that focuses on a particular mechanic (like perception, leadership, mechanics, etc.)?
Gynrei 14 June 2013 - 17:13
Ice is correct on all counts and I hope Ankama takes a long look at this. I can see PvE becoming less popular if PvP gear of equal value is easy to obtain. I enjoy grinding dungeons to get gear BECAUSE IT'S THE BEST, for both PvP and PvE. If it's not the best... I'll spend my time elsewhere. Haven Worlds and PvP are clearly going to require a large amount of my time. If not all.

It’s pretty simple: any investment of the player (in time) must give him something in return. If it’s a small investment, it can be a simple bonus. But if it’s a strong investment, then it must be evolution (otherwise the player feels like he’s wasting his time)

Do you realize how much time is required to farm keys and run the Ambassador dungeon enough times to get the set? I don't need this set to accomplish anything in Wakfu. It opens up a few possibilities because of the AP cape but the time spent does not justify the reward. I can barely find the energy to waste my time there as it is. Once PvP gear is an option, I'll let you imagine what happens next.

Also, Tokens *Cough*

Some classes will have builds that are not adapted for PvP, such as the Summon Osa (although we have some ideas with PvP summons)

I laughed so hard at this statement. Remember when you removed leadership runes etc claiming it was never your intent to have characters running around with 10 leadership. Since then there has been a ton of leadership gear added.

"Edit: Just because it may not be effective in the short term doesn't mean it will be for long."

Our balancing should keep a UB gear pretty efficient in PvP, but the best PvP equipment will be better (because limited to PvP).

I'm even less optimistic than Ice about this statement. I don't think Ankama has proven they have a clear grasp of any fundamental game mechanics. I do not believe you'll do a good job balancing the two gear sets. Past experience has proven otherwise. I'm not going to derail the thread listing all the failures and back peddling this game has gone through.
Mgobr 14 June 2013 - 11:50
why not just add a tab for PvP effects on existing gear? No need to completely separate the two. Give the base effects and then a list of effects for PvP in a separate tab.

Give us a little box to check on character screen to switch to PvP values. Throw up a fancy swords crossed border to make it obvious we're looking at PvP values.

You can start by copying the existing effects straight across to the PvP tab and then balance the existing gear from there. This way we could mix and match existing sets, UB gear could still be highly useful in PvP and you can still turn out sets that have better bonuses for PvP than they do for PvE.
Kikuihimonji 14 June 2013 - 09:42
Concerning osamodas's i hope that they meant that summons will be able to apply their effects in pvp, but then again those effects where fine to have in pve, so what was the point to remove the ability of osamodas's summons to loose their effects?

Also what is the point of having the ability to capture different summons if every osamodas use the strongest one as there is no longer any way for osamodas to have effects from monsters it capture?

And yeah like it was already stated: Osamodas summoner is one of the best pvp class currently. As sadida i had literally no chance to counter 2 powerful summons and 1 osamodas itself. I wonder why you think they need any special "pvp summons" when they are kings of pvp now. IT seems that you don't know your product.

If you don't want to kill this game with different pvp then pve, then you have only 2 ways to do it properly:

Suggestion 1:

Add PvP-only stats to equipement.
Starry Shoes
+10% Resist+12 Initiative+16% Damage+1 MP+50 HP+16 Dodge
+20 Dodge (Pvp only)
+100 HP (PvP only)
+10% Resist All (PvP only)

This way you will keep interest in making people want to pve.

Suggestion 2:

Add Pvp-only costumes that we can use togather with equipement.
Costume x:
+5% max HP (PvP only)
+5% dmg final (PvP only)

This way people will keep trying ot get their gear normally but will also have another thing to obtain: pvp costume (or emblem, just like class emblems).

Those are 2 seperate suggestions. Choose one.

Giving us the pvp gear wich we replace for pve gear is so far the worst idea you had. People will ignore all the dungeons you add and UB's will be those type of monsters that no one will ever bother to fight. People will only level on any monsters, those wich give best exp and die faster and no one will ever bother with prospecting. It will be the day of doom for Enutrofs. It will destroy the game gradually and will soon make Wakfu an pvp-only game. Please do not add pvp-only equipement that replaces our current equipements!
Madd1 14 June 2013 - 08:57
I don't think the concept of separating PVP and PVE is bad at all, maybe it dulls PVE content for you ungodly tryhards, which is fine by me. I waste too much time in this damn game grinding and grinding and grinding and grinding and grinding and grinding when all I want to do is kill everyone. If I can just grind by killing for killing, I don't see any reason not to.

Then again, I'm nervous about any major change Ankama makes, as the last few major ones have been ludicrously bad at best.