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Member Since : 2012-08-08
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posté Today - 02:30:19 | #1
I love this thread.


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #717977  Replies : 15  Views : 297
posté April 17, 2014, 21:55:21 | #2

Quote (Gynrei @ 17 April 2014 20:21) *

Quote
If you're not lucky, that's not the games fault.

Quote
It's not like it's impossible to drop something,

Quote
I know from experience, those who continue to work and understand it's never impossible, always get what they want in time.

Quote
People willing to work are people who understand and accept that you will always drop it eventually,

@Eskimo:

How much would you enjoy Wakfu if you were 'unlucky' with item drops needed to progress further? This is the situation some players are faced with.

It sounds like you invest enough time online to drop most things you want/need. Not everyone has that much free time to drop their level appropriate set. Once you've out-leveled that set (that didn't drop) and move on to the next dungeon... you have a problem. Skill can only take you so far. Your character becomes weaker for the it's level appropriate dungeon because you've failed to drop the set you NEED to complete this next tier. The longer this goes on the tougher it is to PLAY THE GAME FOR FUN. Because at some point, you need to GRIND past content to complete future content. So no, not everyone who works hard gets that drop eventually.

If you have poor gear and an unorthodox build you could be facing a tough time being invited to that level appropriate content. A good team can only carry so many players.

I think it's unrealistic to expect elite players to carry others through content. If that was Ankama's intent it was poor game design. If they intended players to gear and build themselves adequately as they level, that's not working either. i know plenty of players who are above the recommended level for content and are nothing but a hindrance to the rest of the team.

I think it's reasonable to expect a game to give you the tools needed to progress. Making progression based on luck is ridiculous. Maybe Ankama intended the game to be a gear grind, not an experience one. And the challenge is completing content in poor gear until you 'get lucky'. If that's the case I can't really complain. But Ankama has said very little on the matter. I think others on these forums are justified when criticizing the balance of progression in this game (drop rates).

Comparing Wakfu to the Lottery is interesting. They have the same drop rate^^

An online game is typically used for entertainment. People don't really play the lotto for entertainment, they're gambling. If Wakfu is intended to be a gamble to the degree you compare it to the LOTTERY... i think Ankama needs to look harder at how much enjoyment players receive in relation to the amount of work/grind they put in. I understand the balance here is very debatable and their will be differing opinions but I'd rather stand up and fight to have drop rates better. As opposed to leaving because the game isn't for me with such a low ratio of drops/fun:time/work.


Quote (EskimoF @ 17 April 2014 19:54) *
Anything that has a chance to drop, is possible.

Nothing in this game is impossible if you have the time.

Mathematically yes. Realistically no. The world isn't some Utopia where everyone has an equal chance to drop these items. Should everyone expect to have an equal shot compared to everyone else? No. It's a balance like most things in life. This goes for MMO's too.

Wakfu's balance has been Grou'd. Every dungeon run with no drop is another brick.

Can you consider crafting? For most players low/mid level they can simply craft what they need, sure you still need to drop items, but dropping one to two 5% drops is much easier than dropping a bunch of imperial items. (Well, unless it's cloudy cotton, that item's drop rate feels like it's a lie.)

The crafting system isn't perfect, far from it, it's actually super disappointing, but it's better than nothing. A lot of players seem to be too focused on 'The only way to progress is to drop x set or x item.'

What about buying? Any level can do low level dungeons and sell Oto mats or whatever they'd want to earn the money to buy their items if they don't have the time to invest countless runs in hour long dungeons.

As far as I'm concerned, there's plenty of options to use to progress.

The world isn't some Utopia where everyone has an equal chance to drop these items.

Last time I checked, if you and I both did a boss together, we have an equal chance to drop it's loot. (PP requirement met of course.) I'm going to assume you mean in the sense not everyone can grind the dungeons they want, but then; why not grind the dungeons they can do to sell items / mats to acquire their set pieces other ways to progress? It's not like you're limited to only doing dungeons of your level.

Does it take a lot of time? Yes. Is this game for everyone? No. I don't walk into another person's house expecting them to change their furniture because my butt isn't comfortable, if I want to enjoy my time there, I adapt to how it works there.

Wakfu without the grind would be a shallow and boring mess, we've not got enough content to merit the playtime we do. There's no proper questing system, there's not enough things here and there to do. The only thing that keeps us playing on Wakfu is the drop rates. I don't think you realize that, if they increase all the drop rates and everyone gets their perfect sets, everyone will leave because they have nothing left to work for once they're got their set and a team of max level characters with perfect sets.

And yes, this game is made for entertainment. People enjoy the difficult slow grind, if you change it into a baby walk where everyone gets their sets after 20 runs, a lot more people will leave. This game already has a community of players who're working in the current system and have learnt to live with it, if the game was easy a lot of players would just walk all over it and quit because there's nothing to keep them there.

So here's the issue. I enjoy the grind, I know many, many people who also enjoy the grind. When you take away what we enjoy why should we all stay? New players will play, breeze through the game, get all their power easily and gear up, get to end game, wait, where is everyone at end game? Oh they all quit because there's nothing left to do? What about ubs? Oh, well I guess I can just sell all this gear I'm dropping easy in wabbit and buy ub gear, so, why would I need to do ubs for 6 weeks in a row for one piece? Okay well now I have my perfect set, why would I need more kamas? Oh well seeya guys, I'm going to play a game with something to do at endgame.

I speak from years of experiance in MMO's, I adore this genre from the browser based tactics games like Travian all the way to the "new age" of active battle MMO's like Tera and Guild wars 2 (To some extent) all of those games have problems with; it's so simple to drop everything, at the end, everyone has nothing to do. For example Tera; With a group of 4 of us, we breezed to endgame and got perfect sets in 2~3 months for all of us. Where's the fun in that?

On the other hand, I play Wakfu with a handful of good friends, we're still enjoying and progressing at a pace we feel is fair, this keeps us playing wakfu, this keeps us paying for wakfu, this keeps wakfu from shutting down entirely since we need that extra month sub to continue grinding for gears.

Imagine if everyone was done with Wakfu after 3 months? It'd drive it down.

The only way I'd think raising the drop rates would be acceptable, is if they increase the sub cost to ensure they have a server tomorrow. But imagine the uproar that'd make, hm?

Tl;DR
Most people enjoy the game as it is, if you make it easier it'll die much faster. Not everyone will be happy with the drop rate increased, and less people will play in the long run since they can complete it so quickly with the raised drop. Meaning Wakfu will get less money, making it more likely that it'll go under. (No one wants that, I'm sure.) We need something to do endgame, and with how slowly content releases, without the drops there'd be nothing keeping us here.

Although, I'm just speaking my opinion, I don't really care who's right or wrong, I enjoy the game in my way as you would yours. If you can't enjoy the game for whatever reasons, don't think it needs to change because a few of you take the time of day to say something about it on the forums. It may seem like an overwhelming majority want the drop rates increased, but most of the people who play don't use the forums, most of the people happy with the game are playing right now, not in here demanding a change.

This tl'dr isn't very short, but it's okay, it's shorter than the original version so it still counts.


Edit: Let me add a picture too, I don't see what they add to the post but it looks like fun.




This post has been edited by EskimoF - April 17, 2014, 22:05:48.
Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #717373  Replies : 71  Views : 1110
posté April 17, 2014, 19:54:33 | #3

Quote (IcyTincie @ 17 April 2014 19:48) *
Results are so far 6 for yes, and 10 for no.
There have been several opinions on both sides, but for me, the "no side" seems to prove their point better.

I personally am for challenging rewards, that require some effort to get, but I don't want them to be impossible to get..
Anything that has a chance to drop, is possible.

Nothing in this game is impossible if you have the time.  


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #717301  Replies : 71  Views : 1110
posté April 17, 2014, 19:08:12 | #4

Quote (00hearts @ 17 April 2014 03:03) *

Quote (Soundtrack8 @ 17 April 2014 02:34) *

Quote (EskimoF @ 17 April 2014 02:05) *
Wakfu does a wonderful job at dividing those willing to work and those who are not.
Im not sure I follow. The current system is based off luck.
If there were no drop rates and simply tokens then yeah. I'd agree.

Just as an example, remember that joyous time of year with presents, the grinch and santa all running loose.
Yes well.
I had to run the workshop 10 times before I dropped the crafty elf costume and you know something. Twice I was accompanied by someone who had never done the dungeon but dropped it their first run.
lol never ran the dungeon/drops in their first and only time = hard work,

Meanwhile I farmed hush dungeon for a month and didn't drop a scepter. [I lost count after 100 runs]

Does this Eskimo person realize how much work it takes to get hush keys to then run hush? Not how much work but how time consuming. I would not use the word hard because there is nothing hard about that dungeon, its just repetitive, time consuming and annoying.

Then I had to run GM 86 [I kept count] times before A PARTY MEMBER [that just joined me for boss room] dropped my GM Epps. I rolled with pp ducks and fear fizz each run

Lol luckily, the person gave me the epps because otherwise I would have just quit after seeing that.

One would say "wow but it must feel so good to finally have them"

My reply is: it does not feel good.. it only makes me go wtf it took 86 runs to drop them, while I was 4 oftentimes 6 boxing, it only makes me more aware of how crappy and horrible this fucking pp system is. Gm dungeon absolutely nauseates me and I no longer run it.

Realistically If I was with a group of six people running for this and they all wanted epps and etc. it is unrealistic to think that everyone in the group would ever obtain one. In fact, they probably wouldn't. Those 86 runs took 2+ months to complete and since then two of my friends have quit.

Why? because this is the same bullshit for EVERY piece of gear we need for a character. Its just repeat different dungeons 50-100+ runs each just to obtain one piece of gear.

IN fact dropping things isn't even hard work. Its just time consuming. There is a difference between hard dungeons and bugged / mobs with annoying mechanics [wabbit island] / ridiculous dpt [Wa Castle] / Too many estranged mechanics that are retarded [Shushus] and dungeons as such

You Eskimo, have a twisted definition for what "hard work" is. Because this current expectation for drops is not hard, its not even fun, its just annoying, and time consuming.

Give me something hard and I can handle it any day. But these drop rates are just absolutely absurd.

Now look at Cactus. Lol they made everything Yellow / Orange. GL to classes who need that set. Took the regular new dungeons gave us an EVEN SHITTIER drop rate for outside mobs and "regular dungeon runs"[which are still pretty time consuming even if youre rolling with 145's in a few relics and then gave us a "Hard" core mode which ISNT HARD LOL IT ISN'T HARD it's just RIDICULOUS and makes you go "asdfg wdf" but this is the catch, LOL THEY GAVE US THE SAME shitty drop rates we have always had.

Farewell wakfu, if you continue that hardcore crap.
You assume a lot, and that's a very big mistake.

Considering I've farmed Shhudoku enough to have dropped more than two Hushed sets and a Hushed scepter, yes I understand the time it takes to farm keys, I farmed them all myself; infact, I even farmed the mats to craft the whispering keys for the 3 dungeons myself. [Removed] (Hell, I'm even going to run it more for fun to record the runs and make a guide for people.)

I've even done the Otomai quest from start to finish and considering doing it a second time. I've leveled multiple characters from 1~110 simply for fun. (Of course, over multiple accounts.) I've farmed enough to pay for all of my sets for a lot of different characters, not to mention I work to get kamas to buy things for friends and guildies also, I think I've sunk a few million into our Haven World at this point. [Removed]

New cactus? I don't think it's much a problem, I've dropped two Cactluss' already, a few Pont peices, no belt though, but I'm sure I'll get one in time.

What's my secret? Do I think I'm entitled to drops? or Do I pay a mod to give me a million PP? Neither of those.

I just enjoy the game, I don't need every drop I want, I don't need to be the best iop/sac/rogue/panda in the game, I don't need the best gear in the game. So why should I complain when I don't get it? If I don't get it one run, there's always the next one to get it, I'm in no rush, I'm not trying to act like this is a job, I play for my own fun, and I find it fun to invest the time I choose in enjoying the game and maybe getting a drop along the way.

This game is not hardcore, this game is fair. [Removed]

It's like saying "I've done the lottery each week for 10 years and never won once, maybe they should make it easier for me to win." absurd, isn't it? You either get lucky or you don't. If you're not lucky, that's not the games fault. You have a chance at everything, but that doesn't mean you're going to get everything.

But, think of this like life, you won't get everything you want in life, so why do you think you're entitled to everything here? if everyone had everything they wanted then it'd all be very boring, don't you think?



Quote (Soundtrack8 @ 17 April 2014 02:34) *

Quote (EskimoF @ 17 April 2014 02:05) *
Wakfu does a wonderful job at dividing those willing to work and those who are not.
Im not sure I follow. The current system is based off luck.
If there were no drop rates and simply tokens then yeah. I'd agree.

Just as an example, remember that joyous time of year with presents, the grinch and santa all running loose.
Yes well.
I had to run the workshop 10 times before I dropped the crafty elf costume and you know something. Twice I was accompanied by someone who had never done the dungeon but dropped it their first run.
But you always got it eventually, didn't you?

It's not like it's impossible to drop something, it's not impossible to drop it first try either. It's just a roll of the dice, some people are lucky, some people are not.

The difference is between the people who understand that and continue to work for what they want, and the people who throw their toys out of their pram and complain about it because they haven't got it in the time they wanted.

I know from experience, those who continue to work and understand it's never impossible, always get what they want in time. It just takes a little dedication.

To break it down;

People willing to work are people who understand and accept that you will always drop it eventually, where as others quit after a short amount of time because they feel entitled to it after x amount of runs.



This post has been edited by [MOD]Gataki - April 19, 2014, 04:56:21.
Reason for edit : [Forum Rule Violation - Flaming/Attacks]
Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #717287  Replies : 71  Views : 1110
posté April 17, 2014, 02:05:31 | #5
Yes.

If you're not willing to work for your reward then you shouldn't be given it in my opinion.

Wakfu does a wonderful job at dividing those willing to work and those who are not.


This post has been edited by EskimoF - April 17, 2014, 02:10:11.
Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #716987  Replies : 71  Views : 1110
posté April 13, 2014, 23:48:22 | #6

Quote (SeriousBelly @ 13 April 2014 23:01) *

Quote (SeriousBelly @ 13 April 2014 20:23) *
What is a steam group?

-Rizarealm
Seriously, I know some knows what this is. Is it like a live stream of some sorts?

-Rizarealm
Sigh. 


This post has been edited by EskimoF - April 13, 2014, 23:48:50.
Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #715539  Replies : 9  Views : 348
posté April 13, 2014, 12:57:36 | #7

Quote (Ichiechiechie @ 13 April 2014 12:50) *
Stuff
Oooh they're really good, have you drawn them yet? Your art was always adorable

Definitely need a Chibi Wobot, tons of them.


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #715335  Replies : 11  Views : 426
posté April 13, 2014, 10:58:48 | #8
What's your favorite costume/set look? Usually, I dislike all of the costumes on my Iop, because the whole dead white eyes just make her look boring in my opinion.

Although, one of the most ugly costumes I've seen turned out the be the best.



So, as it turns out, the Thrown-Together Castuc Costume not only gives you a sweet ponytail under the helmet, but it also gives an Iop the blessing of actual eyes.


Spoiler: (highlight to show)
This happens since the gov headgear overwrites it, obviously.

If Anakman actually put Iop eyes in the boutique I'd probably buy it.

What about you guys? What costumes or sets do you think suit your characters?


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #715313  Replies : 11  Views : 426
posté April 13, 2014, 10:41:25 | #9
Wouldn't it be easier to just join a Guild?


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #715307  Replies : 9  Views : 348
posté April 11, 2014, 18:29:00 | #10
Nope.


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #714577  Replies : 11  Views : 350
posté April 11, 2014, 18:27:57 | #11

Quote (Jade1 @ 11 April 2014 16:24) *

Quote (EskimoF @ 11 April 2014 16:19) *

Quote (Neneko88 @ 11 April 2014 16:06) *
wabbit! wow ankama listened to us for once? o.o
but the price?...why? do we get +1% damage from it or something? or an aura or something? I don't get it.

ankama we need a reason for why it costs more than the other costumes
Ankaman dosen't need a reason, it's up to them how they price, it's up to you how you buy.
that doesn't make sense
it just makes them look greedy, isn't company reputation important?
Isn't making sure there is a company at the end of the day more important?


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #714575  Replies : 45  Views : 810
posté April 11, 2014, 16:19:21 | #12

Quote (Neneko88 @ 11 April 2014 16:06) *
wabbit! wow ankama listened to us for once? o.o
but the price?...why? do we get +1% damage from it or something? or an aura or something? I don't get it.

ankama we need a reason for why it costs more than the other costumes
Ankaman dosen't need a reason, it's up to them how they price, it's up to you how you buy.  


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #714471  Replies : 45  Views : 810
posté April 11, 2014, 15:38:41 | #13

Quote (Taku- @ 04 April 2014 10:07) *
Good job on this video, I thought it was pretty good. It's kind of a shame the run you had in the video was so clean though, because it's generally better for guides if you show what to do when shit goes wrong. ;x Still good though, the video makes it look easy.
Yeah, it was a very clean run, but I was somewhat excited to start working on the guide so I took the first set of footage we got. For later videos we're planning on recording multiple so we can showcase one run, and then have bits of footage from the other showcasing bad situations (Like BC critting his wind or something along those lines)


Thread : Combat Strategy  Preview message : #714445  Replies : 8  Views : 289
posté April 11, 2014, 15:27:44 | #14

Quote (HateSpawn @ 11 April 2014 15:19) *

Quote (EskimoF @ 11 April 2014 15:15) *

Quote (HateSpawn @ 11 April 2014 15:09) *

Quote (EskimoF @ 11 April 2014 15:04) *

Quote (Taku- @ 11 April 2014 15:00) *
You did it with two sacriers? That's kind of awesome. I like seeing Sacriers that do more than just lock tank. =x
In the team I use there's two sacs, but one is still a lock tank
Sacrier has some of the highest base damage in the game, and I'm also fuckin DECKED in gear. My friends also understand my desire for the title I now have and the Bandage I just gave away, not to mention the DP set for alts. Attraction is also its own frenzy stack, and I could go Air style to do another Frenzy stack in Assault.

theres no reason not to take me lol
Our second sac is more for insurance, we run 2 sac, sadi, eni, fire/earth enu and a earth iop. One is for lock / debuff while the other is for frenzy stacks and debuffing dp's dodge. It's also used to sacrifice and keep people in position during phase 3, but not when he uses mirror images.

Man, Mirror images gives me nightmares.

I was actually making a video guide on our strat, but I want to figure out what triggers Mirror Images first, everyone I ask give me different answers and looking over the footage we did nothing different over the past few runs and it's happened once out of the 5 we've recorded.

Any ideas?
MI like any spell has its conditions. We haven't seen it in any of the aforementioned 7 runs because we keep these conditions in mind. First and foremost, the condition of having level 400 Belligerence. If you pull this off you're already doing something wrong..

I think you need to reassess formation and how you're doing the fight if 400 Belligerence is a regular thing.
Well, it's happened once, I've been trying to figure out what we did differently that caused that since; we didn't lose the run, but it was a pain to deal with and of course we'd want to not have it happen again.

Thanks for the lead, I'll go over our footage again with that in mind and test it out in our next run to confirm it. If I find it conclusive I'll be sure to credit you.  


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #714441  Replies : 40  Views : 927
posté April 11, 2014, 15:15:01 | #15

Quote (HateSpawn @ 11 April 2014 15:09) *

Quote (EskimoF @ 11 April 2014 15:04) *

Quote (Taku- @ 11 April 2014 15:00) *
You did it with two sacriers? That's kind of awesome. I like seeing Sacriers that do more than just lock tank. =x
In the team I use there's two sacs, but one is still a lock tank
Sacrier has some of the highest base damage in the game, and I'm also fuckin DECKED in gear. My friends also understand my desire for the title I now have and the Bandage I just gave away, not to mention the DP set for alts. Attraction is also its own frenzy stack, and I could go Air style to do another Frenzy stack in Assault.

theres no reason not to take me lol
Our second sac is more for insurance, we run 2 sac, sadi, eni, fire/earth enu and a earth iop. One is for lock / debuff while the other is for frenzy stacks and debuffing dp's dodge. It's also used to sacrifice and keep people in position during phase 3, but not when he uses mirror images.

Man, Mirror images gives me nightmares.

I was actually making a video guide on our strat, but I want to figure out what triggers Mirror Images first, everyone I ask give me different answers and looking over the footage we did nothing different over the past few runs and it's happened once out of the 5 we've recorded.

Any ideas?


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #714429  Replies : 40  Views : 927
posté April 11, 2014, 15:04:05 | #16

Quote (Taku- @ 11 April 2014 15:00) *
You did it with two sacriers? That's kind of awesome. I like seeing Sacriers that do more than just lock tank. =x
In the team I use there's two sacs, but one is still a lock tank  


Thread : General Discussion  Preview message : #714413  Replies : 40  Views : 927
posté April 09, 2014, 14:19:13 | #17
This seems like a very nice idea for the lower levels, but I think it seems a little limiting at the moment that may not cater to everyone's limitations.

To name a few;

-What about people who don't use Skype?

-Without a mic?

-Who don't want to share their personal Skype with random people?

I don't wish to seem like I'm picking holes in this, it's a great effort, but I'm sure you'd want as many people as possible to join in; so you'd need to make it more open for everyone.

If this gains a lot of traction and turns into an active circle and you need spaces on a Teamspeak server, let me know, I'm sure I could get some slots ready for you and your groups in the server I co-host.

Best of luck~


Thread : Events  Preview message : #713591  Replies : 3  Views : 399