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SUPER OVER POWERED AIR ROGUE!!! OVERPOWERED AIR ROGUE!! WHY IS HE NOT NERFED!!!!!!!!!!???

Seriously the french info section shows most classes getting nerfs and the ridiculously overpowered rogue gets a change of only a support skill from 3 range escape to 2 ?

The Air rouge needs serious nerf come on 40% of ini as bonus dmg ? dont u know how much ini and damage we get with blackcrow set and other equipments combined and even without the optimal items i will be listing below they can still easily get a decent ini and damage equipment ???

blackcrow set alone gives 75ini (30% dmg) + 111% air dmg + 14% crit + 1ap

max lvl angroga bow meow = 50 ini (20% dmg) my freaking tofu only gives 25% dmg at max lvl but they get 20% dmg and 50 ini ?

we still have slots for 2 rings, weapons bp, belt and a amulet (6 items in total) lets say we get them 2 set crobak crow bp + belt = 20 ini (8% dmg) + 32 % air dmg + 6% crit

for rings and amulet lets say we get them 2 black crow rings and a shadowed amulet = 50ini (20% dmg) + 40% air dmg + 5% crit + 1ap

lastly we get them a weapon maybe a Great Makabra Sword = 20ini (8% dmg) + 20% dmg +4% crit +1ap

or get them a crobak dagger + The parched = 28 ini (11.2% dmg) + 52% dmg + 6% crit

lets total them up and i use parched n crobak for dmg = 223 ini ( 89.2% dmg) + 235% air dmg + 31% crit + 2ap = 324.2 air dmg without skills and stats + 2ap + 31% crit

lets go crazy and go pure agi build for lvl 105 = 261 agi (130.5 air dmg) + pure air dmg skill build + 150% air dmg = 280.5 air dmg so what do we have now ?

324.2 air dmg + 280.5 air dmg = 604.7% air dmg and lets say u max rouge master too + 40ini (16% dmg_ = 263 ini + 620.7% air dmg + 31% crit + 2ap

So during battle we get 263 ini + 620.7 air dmg + 31% crit + 8ap + 4mp and 6wakfu which pretty much lets u go first if the other party doesnt have points in ini and u get to choose the bonuses first if the battle lasts that long~

As u all know ALL air skills has a special effect after Crit

Slap Shot 2AP at lvl deals -2 hp (Crit = -4hp -5% air resist)
lvl 100 = -30hp (crit -45hp -20% resist)

Roguery 2MP skill which pulls target to u and places u behind them
lvl 1 = -4hp (crit -6hp confusion/stun lvl 1 1% chance to trigger)
lvl 100 = -30hp (CRIT 100% CHANCE TO STUN)

Boomerang Dagger 4AP 1MP skill which hits in a semi circle very big and strong aoe WITHOUT line of sight.
lvl 1 = -7hp in semi circle (Crit = -11hp + -4hp quick shot)
lvl 100 = -62hp in semi circle (Crit = -90hp + -15hp quickshot)

Barbecued Ribs 1 Wakfu point skill (free hit since air rouge dont really need wakfu for anything else)
lvl 1 = -1 hp (Crit -2hp -1mp)
lvl 100 = -30hp (Crit -45 -1mp)

Longsword 6AP which lets u move away from target after hitting them (Best combo with Roguery)
lvl 1 = -6hp (Crit -9hp moves away from target and pushes target back 1 cell)
lvl 100 = -85hp (Crit -125hp moves away from target and pushes target back 1cell)



Just look at those skills Ankama, if i lvl roguery to lvl 100 each turn i can use long sword + roguery to stun my target forever + slap shot + Barbecued Ribs = 8ap 2mp and 1wakfu used per turn and i still have 2mp left to move if i need to

dmg with that combo = Longsword lvl 70 -61hp, Roguery lvl 100 -20hp, slapshot lvl 70 - 32hp (backhit) + barbecued ribs lvl 70 -32hp (backhit) = -145 dmg a turn x 620.7% air dmg + default 100% = 1045 dmg a turn dealt without calculating crit and u stun target every single turn =_=;;

or u just want to deal plain dmg or aoe dmg hitting multiple target in range for boomberang u use lvl 70 Roguery -15hp + lv 70 barbecued ribs - 32hp (backhit) + 2 boomerange dagger lvl 100 -186 dmg (backhit) = 233 dmg x 620.7% air dmg + default 100% = 1679.231 air dmg without crit

Boomerang dagger deals crazy dmg at crit 105 (152.5 backhit) if just 1 boomerang crits = Air Rogue will deal over 2k dmg a turn.....



Above is just a simple calculation, there is of course much more stronger and overpowered way to build air rogue like crit build to increase ur chance to trigger drastically or 12ap crit build to use 3 boomerang, but all and all im just saying

HOW COULD ANKAMA LEAVE THIS CLASS TO BE OVERPOWERED WHILE NERFING ALL THE OTHER CLASSES!!!!!!?????


Peace~ ^o^v

thanks, im going to make one!! muahahahaha

Lol, let's compare with Air Iop:
Based on your calculation:
223 ini (-Air Rog Passive) + 41 init (from stat just to beat that Air Rog) = 264 init
620.7 - 89.2 (Air Rog Passive) + 40 (Iop Passive) + 100 (Iop Passive when reach lvl 100 Power)
= 671 air bonus - 21 (replacement for init )
= 650% air damage with better init, and better health from passive

Damage:
Eventrail: -40 HP, 2MP (twice rougery damage and can be used in melee)
Jabs = Slap Shot
Barbequed = Uppercut

Still think Air Rog is OP?

Oh and yes, backstab deal 1.3 times not 1.5 as you mentioned
and furthermore: Rougery NEVER stun, it's confused just like Sram's Turn Around

Play it first before accusing

Note: all of your calculations are wrong, example: at lvl 105 it's not 261 agi but 260


This post has been edited by Bellfone - June 26, 2012, 07:28:11.

Yeah, just 2 points:
- Roguery can't stun
- Not everyone can get the Black Crow set

Edit: I want to add that:
- It's not always that Rogue can use Roguery to get to the back due to minimum range = 2 requirement (not without a cost)
- Rogue's HP is very low and can be finished in 2 turns by high damage dealing classes
- High damage % = low range, high resistance % = lower initiative. You can think of it as another Iop

However, it is true that this branch has very good damage output with the Boomerang Dagger skill being subject to future nerf.

Most of the unusually high damage in your calculation are based on backstab damage thanks to Roguery. As Belltone said, I can confirm that backstab damage only increase final damage by 30%, not 50%.

Against Air Rogue, close range classes should learn to get close to it or stay far away when the rogue is not reachable. Long range classes should stay far away, or purposely get close to it when unavoidable. It's all to avoid being get to the back by Roguery.

At close range, a Rogue can purposely create chance to get behind by pushing back the opponent using Magnetic Claw at the cost of 2 AP. 1 less Slap Shot = 30 base damage, quite a significant loss for the gain of 30% final damage.

Longsword is a semi close range attack. If you look at Iop's spells, most of its spell have a base damage of 15 damage per AP, or even higher. The Iop has compulsion + authority's boost, which makes a total of 140% damage boost. Air Rogue has Air Master & Hot Wire for damage boost, which will require a total initiative of 225 to get even with the Iop (both wearing no equipment). Longsword has a base damage of 85/6 = 14.1 damage per AP so it's actually lower than Iop's spells general base damage.

Again, what makes the Rogue different is the Roguery & Boomerang Dagger (+ the low HP). A PvP challenger should make it difficult for an Air Rogue to take advantage of those spells as I mentioned above and crush it when the chance comes.

The Black Crow set, however, is quite a major advantage that favors air-based class because it:
- is currently strongest set in the game in terms of: HP, Initiative & Damage boost,
- actually increases Air spells' levels instead of a different element's spell levels like other set,
- & has +1 range stat

Therefore other classes will have to wait until there is a comparable set with the Black Crow set for a fair comparison to be done between them and air rogue or air Iop.


This post has been edited by Resonate - June 26, 2012, 08:24:45.

Not sure, is this serious. Sacrier complaining about Rogue being OP? You're either trolling or totally can't play Sac. Those calculations are crazy and since when Rogue has a stun?
I can't imagine Sac losing to Rogue. You just walk up to Rogue and kill him with your OP shield, OP dmg (if you're fire) and OP makabrafire. Not to mention Sacriface, which is totally OP in groups fights, because we don't have any spells for removing buffs, like in Dofus.
Remember, that damage is all Rogue does. If the damage of dmg dealer class is weak, then he's useless, like air/earth Cra.


This post has been edited by krowakot - June 26, 2012, 10:15:14.

Some 'gentle' reminders,

1) Rogues ALWAYS start first (or usually, unless you go full ini...._

2) Rogues have range

3) Aoe dmg

does a 1.5k hp sac stand a chance against a rogue that does 1000 dmg on the first turn?.... yeah....

Well if you are pvp type and you have Max Clinging to Life + Max Angrr + Max Moribund + Max Attaction

after you die and return he will screw anyway --.....

Note: Ankama will nerf if they really op anyway depend on time being.(From Troyle thread it seem next is Fire Xelor nerf right?)
 

well i do know theres some error in calculations but it was a rough example i apologize for that but what im saying is the overall build for rogue if u compare it only with iop's dmg of course iop has higher overall dmg for now until unless they maintain this build til future and u see much higher ini eq making the ini bonuses much higher then iop's, but we need to look at other things rogue can do

i was actually mainly looking at it in general terms it has high overall dmg with the dmg boosting skill which some classes have but ini is an easily increasable stat from equips even later on so the bonuses will get much higher, then we look at his other skills runaway which lets him get away from u when u hit it and mainly even without the stats in dmg we can go pure critical build and still deal a high dmg and make use of the effects provided so if u look at it now air iop doesnt have a long range atk nor a aoe atk and yet rogue can hit almost as hard as iop yet much better then iop if they crit and they have a good range aoe with no line of sight require and for hp terms just as much as everyone else except iop and sac so u cant exactly say its low hp since only 2 classes get bonus hp now

the mentioned build on the thread was mainly pve thats y we only need dmg and if its pve rogue has aoe making it better then iop to hit multiple enemies.

if u want to talk about pvp build just have to go add 1 mp, 22crit 1range 5ini with some twitches here n there could easily get u over 60crits and yet have around 400-500% air damage and maybe use maka bow for even more bonus range or u can tweak it into mp and range build or anything air iops cant catch hit from range and even if they do catch u runaway triggers at 40% rate air iops can never finish dishing out the full damage on u and rogue can use their teleport skill to keep distance with melee classes making it very efficient for them to keep their targets where they want then use boomerang basically

1) it can hit almost as hard as iop during 1v1 and if both of them crit every single attack rogue is much stronger 2ap jab 45crit dmg/ 2ap slap crit 45dmg + -20% air resist other wise 4ap 1mp boomerang crit = 105 dmg aoe

2) 2 its aoes pretty well with boomerang and easily hits 6 range with +1range from stats and 1 range from bow thats a very decent range too which is without line of sight requirement

3) runaway makes it hard for ppl to hit it multiple times so iop pretty much can never deal full dmg at it even if they finally manage to catch him.

4) its hp is the same as all the classes out there except for iop n sac but seriously does hp matter?? whoever starts first especially range classes now lets take air rogue for example dishes out over 1k dmg easily if they want to and can still run further away

5) people who say sacs can use attraction n clinging to life to deal massive damage with punishment seems to forget its easily avoidable if u get out of range when u kill him and besides sac needs 2mp to cast attraction its not too hard to get out of its casting range u can teleport sac away before u kill him with boomerang and run out of range with remaining mp

6) eni n rogues are the really op ones before u say sacs are op since air branch does shit for damage u hardly see any left now and earth branch skills deals least damage for coagulation to so call "tank" how much hp can we actually tank ? their damage is so weak ppl dont even need to run away from earth sacs we have like what ? 2k hp ?

if u have 10ap build + max tattoo blood then use 2 colonades we get 10% hp as armor = 200 hp for coagulation~ yay~~~ even at lvl 100 it only hits for 60hp and thats at melee range, ppl can say we can use sanguine armor to survive abit longer for earth sacs but range classes dish out 1k dmg easily now but now they going to nerf coagulation even more making it even more impossible to play earth sacs we already need all our wakfu n skills to actually get in range to hit the range classes and for classes like iop brawling it out normally we would just lose.

so air sac = useless, earth sac = take as much dmg before u die (team player) so fire sac just get out of range when u kill him, iops can use push for last hit n run cra can beacon away rogue can tele, eni can just trans, xelor just hide behind ur dials or run away with air spells, feca teleport away, basically if u know fire sacs have clinging to life and plans to go suicide attack on u just stay out of range when u kill him, almost all classes have ways to avoid his last hit.

so yea i stick to my point rogue is op~ xD

Believe me, I'm a range, crit, ini Air Rogue myself and without the Black Crow set, I only manage to get 25% crit, +3 range, roughly 400% damage bonus and nearly 1,100 HP with the best possible combination of equipments I could find.

I couldn't kill an earth Sac due to his superior HP and HP shield even if his damage was small. A Fire Sac would have outright killed me.

Starting first doesn't mean you will do 1,000 damage in the face of a Sac. Any Sac would have at least 100% air resistance if not a lot more. My first and best damage to that Earth Sac was about 500, from that point onwards it was pretty bad due to his shield. Remember that the Black Crow set plays a crucial role here in making an Air Rouge OP.

Edit: If you read the proposed change for the coming patch. Runaway will no longer trigger on a melee (close-combat) attack.


This post has been edited by Resonate - June 26, 2012, 14:15:14.

Let me describe you my last fight with earth Sac on my air Cra. I attack him, barely do any dmg through shield and kill myself on makabrafire. Meanwhile Sac is derping around, passing, attacking my beacon and laughing at me. When he's at half HP, he finally decides to attack me and kills me in 3 turns (also stops taking any dmg from that moment, because of shield from WP). Balanced.

And how can 1500 HP sac kill 1000dmg Rogue?
1) Rogue starts and does 1000dmg
2) Sac attacks Rogue
3) Rogue attacks Sacs, who lives with clinging to life
4) Sac kills Rogue


Did I mention, how ridiculous teamfight utility Sac has, while Rogue has just a push and few weak effects if he crits? This thread is just silly.


@edit Really? Runaway don't work on melee range? That's HUGE nerf for earth and fire Rogues, who are pretty weak already. First Boombot and now this. Ankama and their balancing...


This post has been edited by krowakot - June 26, 2012, 14:28:33.

really not sure what ankama thinking now, (I thought runaway it mostly use for avoid melee combo (like iop) but now it active only range attack.....(for what? for range attacker waste more mp to walk for shoot the rogue? or maybe they even not need to walk abit? lol silly nerf --")

There are classes that are much more OP, and classes that Rogue doesn't stand a tiny chance against/ Not to mention that air branch of rogue is actually the only viable branch.

Earth is decent, but fire is not viable. The fire skills have no logic to them, they deal low dmg, and have little to none utility. I hope for a total revamp of fire branch and some of the specialization spells.

Ankama should balance all the classes in the first place, and then add new content and even more classes. They are doing it in a wrong manner. Many people are frustrated and stop playing waiting for certain classes to be buffed, or just switch character to the one that is currently OP. Playing an OP character is obviously more enjoyable...

Actually fire is playable, will be good in fact. But you need help for leeching for about 50 levels at the beginning.

Every class is playable, but why would you take fire Rogue to group, when you can take Iop or fire Cra?

Totally agree. Every class is playable, but why would I play a fire rogue and struggle during every fight? I can just choose a different class like Iop, Cra or Sacri and actually enjoy the game.


This post has been edited by Butterflyx - June 27, 2012, 22:11:47.

+1 Ankama should make every class and every can enjoy the game....not some class or some branch...--"

Because a lot of people want to play something unique, something not too mainstream, even if it is not the optimal choice, e.g. people playing Sadida, earth Cra, air Sac, earth Iop, water Panda, water/fire Ecaflip, etc.




Fire Rogue can activate Hotwire to use Piercing Shot effectively (better than Earth Rogue) and shoot Nun when her's resistance is up, or use bombs to blind Krabok's Gobgob from using his long range attacks, as well as to attack him without fear of getting reflected damage

Maybe not a very persuasive examples as these are easy dungeons but maybe future contents might require use of such abilities.


This post has been edited by Resonate - June 28, 2012, 03:10:48.

some people have to remember balancing logic. If a class is harder to play, and becomes effective only with careful planning, than the end result should reward him for that effort. If a fire rogue needs 2-3 turns of setting up before dealing proper damage, then that end damage should be big enough to make up for the 2-3 turns lost and NOT just be equal to 1 turn of damage from an iop/cra. Not to mention many unforseen situations can cause a fire rogue to delay his bombs even longer.

A class really is unacceptable if even veteran players can only make them as powerful as a Cra in a newbie's hands.

Even if people like playing harder classes, nobody likes seeing their class trying harder but succeeding less.

But I suspect ankama is going to do something about it anyways. And many other classes. I mean how can they not?

Not to mention that in PvP, at higher level, you won't be even able to set the bombs cause you are pretty dead after 1-2 turns, which is another problem of this game.

It says it's tactical, when it's really not. It only seems to be.
There is also not much of a "sandbox" feel to the game, it's a "sandbox" wannabe. It only looks as if we had any impact on the eco system. There are many limitations like max number of monsters/plants in an area. Also monsters cannot really go extinct, you can bring them back in like 2 minutes. Same goes for resources.

The professions are another joke, it's one big grind which is not worth it (maybe besides cook, chef and miner), and it's better to just buy your items with Kamas, which are still faster to get. You can easily get 400+ kamas in an hour after leveling up your mining to a decent level. None other profession is that rewarding.

So I am not even surprised that this game has fewer and fewer players. Ankama has some sloppy game designers, not to mention the game's director and people who generally work at Ankama and accept those designs.

The truth is harsh.

(Sorry for the off-topic )


This post has been edited by Butterflyx - June 28, 2012, 10:33:07.