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Nerfs and Nerfs Hello Ankama and Players

Everybody saw the changes that will probably happen soon, I came here because I'm completely frustrated about my character, feca.

First, this is my favorite character, I play it since it launched and I dont feel playing any other character.

I was there in every single change (nerfs) that happend.

Now I'm gonna tell you a little about what happened:

I started as a fire Feca based on the fecastopheles glyph, taking out my enemies MP, one glyph may not be that good, but it used to be possible to stack it, and it changed in the early times of feca. Now I ask you, what's the point of using an AP expensive glyph that will hit for like 30~40 or even less, losing 1 MP tops, and then the enemy leaves the glyph in the next turn? (fecas have no push back spell)

So I worked on a new strategy, using fecastopheles shield or peace armor depending on the enemy and occasion, I agree that fecastopheles damage was overpowered, however, it's range was ridiculous, and there was only few occasions that you could actually use it on a fight, then I ask you why can enis and xelor hit for 800+ with no penalty? Enis can also heal themselves for half their lifes in one turn, and xelors can always rollback, absurd critical damage, easy escape mechanics, create copies and always have a bigger initiative than the other classes. Then fecastopheles damage was completely nerfed, and besides being difficult to use it, it was depressive seeing your hits going from 600 to 300.

Then I changed my element, from fire to water, my damage went down but at the cost of a greater range and area of effect, no line of sight, that means, compared to the other elements, water is easier to handle. I used peace armor, AP glyphs when necessary, then it came AP glyphs nerf.

Cras have a critical passive, that means they always do 500+ at long range, Iops does tons of damage, ecaflips don't need too much to do gigantic damage, enis, xelors, srams, sadidas, all those classes have something to increase their damage, feca has ap or mp glyphs, depending on the occasion, but take him out of the glyphs, or distance yourself from his attack zone and his done, fecas deals minimum damage outside his glyphs.

"Ah but fecastopheles base damage is 95", ok, agreed, but do you think it's possible to use this spell at all in a fight? Feca's only defense is his armor (Peace Armor) and you really wanna take this from him? Ok, nerf stackable ap glyph, I don't agree with that anyway, a character made to be a tank, giving ap, mp, range, critical, initiative? What's the logic of a classe made to be a tank boosting his party and his own damage, and long minimum range spells like bubble being useless against characters like iops and sacriers in lock zone? What's the logic of using an area of effect glyph if the area is so small that one step is enough to get out of it? Not to mention the fire shields that are useful in extremely rare situations.

For me, fecas and his spell trees should be focused on defense, it would be more logical, for example, a natural attack shield, that damages locked enemies, be used to increase feca's defense in 20% every time he locks his foe. Why does fecas increases ap, mp and all those things? It could be something like this: every time feca is attacked in his glyphs, his resistances increases 5% or 10%, then, if someone take him out of his glyphs, the penalty is not that big, because even being out of the glyphs the damage he would take would be decreased. We could have a resistance drain spell, that every time we receive an attack, a part of the enemy resistance would be transferred to the feca.

There is a lot of possibilities, I've even thought of several ones, but decreasing Peace Armor's defense from 60% final damage to 50% resistance won't be good. Another issue, I really dont believe that spell rebound should be used as a makabrafire ring, PLEASE ANKAMA, that was ridiculous, what you want with this? Use this ring and have one of feca's passive? What's the next ring? Take out your enemy's AP and summon monsters?

I know these are just plans, but think carefully, cause I play feca a long time, and with the current benefits I both win and lose a lot of pvps. Don't think of this topic as offensive, but just think about us having to change our strategy every time a new patch comes out.

Ty.

well it ankama man --" (still dont get why nerf sacrifire (Limited to one use a turn and maximum charge of 10, Troyle copy from "FR side")
instead of Clinging on life ...(if they nerf CoL to 60% chance and add some stat hp (like 60 hp at max lv or something) it will better - -")

cuz if Ultimate Boss in future have super high AOE damage (like hp below 2000 death for sure) use after all players turn done if Sacrifire can use 1 time per turn (like FR side said) so well... i think it abit too late to use for protect all ally in party --" (in PVP i think problem is CoL 100% return from death (for 1 turn) then Sacrifire skill --")


This post has been edited by Badd29 - June 28, 2012, 12:03:31.

You have Intimidation Aura to "boost" your attacks - it has the same boost (40%) as Eni's Expert Healer or new Sac's Moribund (first 20%, then 40% and one turn of 80%). It can be compared with Osa's dragon form (50%) or Enu's gold mine (60% and you need to get to it first). I'm not sure about other classes but I suppose that now they have almost the same damage boost bonus. I'm also not sure about Iops and Cras but looks like they are designed as pure damage dealers so they may have higher bonuses.

What Ankama is doing now - removing "bursts" of damage - a huge problem of PvP in any game. Because of them ini is primary stat for PvP builds - advantage of being able to attack first is same as doubling your final (not elemental) damage when you kill enemy in two turns or 33% if fight lasts 4 turns. To make similar damage with investing in str\agi\etc you will need approx 1200 points which is simply impossible to achieve.

Why Ankama doing it only now instead of releasing game polished - is another question.


This post has been edited by sabrenity - June 28, 2012, 07:36:54.

Another question is - why there's only private testing server, and not the public one? 500+ players can find more bugs and give better feedback on how to improve things than 20+...


This post has been edited by Butterflyx - June 28, 2012, 10:13:16.

Just like sabrenity said it's a question why ankama have released this game with classes that had so great power and made inbalance in game not the question why there are nerfs.

For me it was obvious that having 15 AP from glyph's is just way too OP and that it will be nerfed.
Even xelor's can't give that much to allies and they are supposed to be masters of that art.

Ankama simply let us play the crazy powerfull version of our classes and now they realised that it's bad so they are changing it NOW (again: why so late?) to make this game more tactical.

I can tell you that my faviourite class, wich is sadida, was great in last days of beta and they totally nerfed it when they released the game for unknown reason. Now they are going to buff this though there will be other nerfs in same time (for exampe no more damage bonus on totem). but i do agree that this damage bonus wasn't necessary so i'm fine with this change. What i want increased HP and resist for dolls so that i can play as summoner aka: as i should be playing with summoner class.

For eniripsa i have to say that i don't understand why they are going to change it's HP bonus to apply only to allies and not eniripsa itself. It will make this speciality usefull ONLY in group and it's useless when SOLOing. Unlike sacrier's HP bonus wich is great even withotu team members. This is unfair for eniripsa's that's what i can tell.
Nevermind there was change: now Constitution will give 10% hp to eniripsa and 15% to allies. It's still nerf and i got the feeling that 10% hp bonus is not much unless they will give us better hp from distribution points of maybe 10 hp per level... We will see.

For feca i just see good rebalancing there, though i still got the feeling that glyph's should be 2 cells aoe in circle instead of 1. Maybe in the future they will buff feca.


This post has been edited by Kikuihimonji - June 28, 2012, 13:30:24.

Dunno why its called nerfs all the time its balance for all classes and you do realize some 3-4 months ago they stated " Big changes were coming involving most classes that will be done gradually "
I play a Feca also and I agree with the changes a little disappointed I'm loosing reflect but I see how its over powered since PvP updates are due out this year. The glyph's are ridiculous and always have been, I've never relied on them on the simple fact they were gonna be changed eventually.

As much as it pains me to do so I will defend Ankama again here, they are a group of devs in a small office working on alot of things like new maps, items, dungeons, gears, class balance, bugs, future updates, relativity, balance of gears, new recipes for crafts. Now they are human believe or not so they have lives to, so this is a nine to five job and they get roughly a month to two months I think they have been working at for new content releases. So we can presume they got a damn hectic schedule, so do you really think they even have the time to make major changes before a release?

As a side note what you guys have to realize is they are listening! There is a few people that have made videos about the problems on the game and they have been watched by Troyle and relayed to the devs. Maybe make your own videos on youtube or send messages to Shiraf (randomentity on youtube) discussing your problems with the game he will pick certain ones that are hot topics and who knows they may listen and agree. I know hes gonna work on a new video soon.

Sorry for chewing any ones ear off just don't want people to keep going mad over nerfs its just class balance happens in ALL games, never stick to a build like its gonna be that good forever certainly not in a new game.

Thanks, Dusteh

Great Topic man, +1



but Ankamans/MODs will not mind and maybe even read this topic, because the administration of Ankama is horrible, and the opinion of the players is not worth anything, complainings and sugestion are the same of nothing
as in the end this game will be a copy of the Frency game, I already lost hope of trying to claim something here, or suggest good ideas. WE WILL NEVER BE HEARD HERE #sadbuttrue

when Ankama lose several players because of the antics, they will solve hear our opinion

the only area that I know they listen to us, is to 'Bug report'

MOD's do in game duties the problems being discussed here are the duties of the dev's and they are the one creating the new content and the likes. Please keep up with troyle's from the FR side posts any changes good or bad will come from there.

~Dusteh

Everybody knows how hard is to reach the cap level and buy the gears for it, now you can imagine how bad was for me to change my whole equipments every update they launched, and what about this ridiculous news? Anyone with a makafire ring can have one of our specialities, really? You really can't thinking in something better?

In all the changes 'till today the Fecas was in almost all of them, maybe was the class with the most changes in the game. But I still think that I'm in my right to complain 'cause I'm really upset, they had a lot of chances to make a good character and that's not I can see when I play with my own class. Thanks

How about changing it to:
20% chance of receiving no damage or effect
or
10% chance of reciveing no damage or effect
10% chance of reciveing no damage or effect and rebounding the damage

Edit: The effect part is useful so you don't suffer from effects like Zombification


This post has been edited by Spazturtle - June 28, 2012, 19:16:00.

Yes, exists a lot of possibilities, I just don't get the reason to make a exclusive speciality of a class in a ring.

And what about HP bonus on ring? Oh wait but hp bonus is one of the iop's specialities!

You should change your point of view. It's not that others will have the same thing that feca. It's feca who will have 10% reflect MORE then other's. Feca with 2 makabrakfire rings will have 30% reflect dmg! That's awsome. You could even think it's better then current spell rebound. Why? Because spell rebound have 20% chance to happen while new speciality will ALWAYS reflect 10% damage. So in 10 turns you will give 1 turn of damage back to damage dealer with 100% chance, while spell rebound is more random. Sure spell rebound could happen few times but it could nto happen at all. They are just making feca less luck based - afterall it's not an ecaflip, you know.

Still if it's passive ability they have to figure out what will increase every level. This means that 10% rebound is not enough itself. They might add Block or some other effect in it. I just hope they won't make it 20% rebound because with 2 makabrakfire rings and prespic set equipped for fun: you will reflect 50% dmg back to attacker! In other words, attacker will kill itself with your help. That's why this 10% reflect is still a lot, belive it.

Technically your not supposed to souly be relying on purchasing all your gears as the games markets are still establishing themselves, you don't need to change builds at all just re-distribute your points elsewhere. I have to agree with Kiku the change of the spell makes it less random which isnt always a bad thing. 30% your looking at nearly 1/3 of all damage being reflected back on every hit :S kinda starting to think this is a buff rather than a nerf.. lol we cant judge it untill we tried it for ourselves.

But then I would still receive damage, you would be turning a defensive passive into an agressive passive.

Yep, its due to the PvP updates we have been waiting for will be alot more balancing to come aswell that I'm pretty sure of. My spell reflect has seemed broken for some time now anyway's so I'm glad some change has happened regarding it.

You can't compare Eni's "Expert Healer" with Intimidation Aura... first Eni's don't need to be Face to Face to the target for the passive to trigger. They can have it anywhere. Neither can you compare it to Sac's Moribound, sure they need to lower their HP to reach this effects, but we're talking about a class that has way more HP that the rest of us, and when they reach those 20% - 40% they are still in a close margin to our HP (Some times even more).

In my point of view I never saw my Feca as a burst damage dealer, least not until the last nerf to the fire branch, so I changed to enforce more on the rebounds. Although 30% rebound is alot with the Makabra ring, not everyone has this makabra rings, so I think sure... maybe not raise the % of rebound, but at least add a little more to it, maybe HP, or resist, or as someone said Block.

I can compare and I will - Eni's healer is for heals only and Sac needs to enter battle without full HP which isn't a great option at least for PvP - while whole party can benefit from Feca's Intimidation Aura.

Also I've made calculators for several classes and can tell you that in most cases low damage happens because of under-leveled spells. If you want damage - pick one spell and build your character around this spell. It should be at max level while others should be equal level for elemental bonus. Feca more than able to deal damage: 2 fecammers deal 94 ranged base damage for 2AP 4MP - while Sac's Smasher deals 105 melee base for 6AP and WP (level 100 both). And with glyphs stacking you can deal insane amount of damage even with wasting 1 turn for set-up.

Block for Feca is kinda poor choice because theres no synergy with Nun Set. To make block work you need some pretty solid numbers there: ~33% to have average damage reduction of 10%.

I have to agree here, feca got insane damage output. It has a damage of damage dealer and bonus damage of a summoner (glyphs/armors) with passive increase to dmg wich is intimidation aura (even if its only for close) and great abilitites to reduce damage taken. Its tank and damage dealer in same time. It's Op and i won't be surprised if Fecammer and Defensive Orb receive huge nerf to damage.

To make Intimidation Aura work you need lock. And not many fecas invest in this Caractheristic cause it's kinda dumb... We're not sacks to lock people in place.

Just cause earth Sacriers don't deal same as Fecas doesn't mean that Feca's are OP...

Earth Sacriers have Coagulation, which reduces de damage by a % of the huge pool of HP they have, their role is to tank, and take a beating while their team does their work.

Want to be a damage dealer then play a Fire Sac.

Fecas can deal 2 Hammers and 1 staff per turn... Like you said it's 94 Dmg x 2 + 130-140 from staff.. Thats barely 350 Damage... is that OP? How is that OP?

That's what most support classes deal.

Yeah sure with glyphs you can amplify the number of times that can happen, but that's gonna change, besides in pvp... relying on glyphs is tricky... you can waste a turn setting up your glyphs just to be pushed off of them in the next turn an losing everything...

Do sacriers or anis depend on being in a exact place by the start of their turn to be good? I don't think so.

If you guys think Feca hammer and ORB which hits like crap... are OP than wow... I don't know what to say.

I'm fine with the changes that are coming for us on this incoming nerf... But it seems that's not good enough for some of you.


This post has been edited by iiNoted - July 02, 2012, 01:02:17.

Okay Mr. Nice Feca.

1. I didn't say that Fecas are OP. I said that they are able to deal damage and compared them to earth Sac. Yes, it is tank, not a DD, but earth Feca is not DD either, it's tank\support.

2. You don't need lock for Intimidation Aura - you need to stay close to the enemy. My earth Sac has zero points in lock (okay, maybe 20 from Multi-Arm) and enemies are often locked after Assault + Smasher (no dodge reduction from Rocky Foot). This is fighting WG and Trees while wearing Forfut Set. Tho, I can admit that it's not that useful on earth Feca because you need MP to cast Fecammer.

3. Learn how to calculate damage. 2 FH + FS is 47*2 + 77 = 171 base damage (7 AP 4 MP). For every 100% in earth mastery you add another 171. With 300% you will deal 684 damage not counting crits. If your enemy has 150% earth resist you will deal 427.5 damage. You can get 300% easily at level 90 (~162% forfut + riktus elite cloak + makabra sword; ~120% from mastery; just find somewhere 20%). Also, I'm more than sure, that you can easily get 8 AP 6 MP and make 218 base damage (872 with 300%, 545 with 150%).

I don't think that Earth Fecas should be 1st in line shouting "OMG, we're nerfed to the ground", seriously.