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Dev & Play Tester Q&A: The new spell exp system (Source: Nox) Q&A: Feedback #12 Hi everyone,

Today we will have a special edition of our usual Q&A sessions, this time focusing on the new Spell Experience System which was recently announced.

As some of you may already be aware, Ankama has recently asked four expert players from the French community to become official Play Testers at their office with the goal to provide live testing feedback on game designs and class balancing efforts. Since then, they have started work on the new Spell system mentioned prior and here are some of their commentaries you may find of value. They are not Ankama or Square Enix employees, but instead volunteer players who have been embedded closely with the team in order to directly the global communities gameplay concerns.

The information below was provided by the following individuals: Zeorus ( Game Designer) , Eskarina (French Community Manager) , Freyrr (Play Tester) , Kowac (Play Tester) , and Grou (Play Tester) .

With all that said, let's get to it, shall we? *cracks knuckles*

Questions & Answers


Zeorus (Game Designer):

• "The increase of Elemental Spell power is strictly linear (level 1 to level 2 will earn the same power as from level 99 to level 100). However, the increase of experience will obviously not be the same."

• "In terms of profitability, it is more interesting to have 20 levels in a spell instead of just 1 in another, and that's the choice you'll have to make: single-spell/element to max out damage or multi-spell/element to gain versatility? You'll now be free to choose what you want."

Eskarina (French Community Manager):

• "In regards to Spell Scrolls, no matter what happens, you will automatically get tokens. The value will be the same as whether the scroll has already been used or still in your inventory (which will be removed once the new system is up)."

Freyrr (Play Tester):

• "Imagine that you are a level 105 Earth Iop with Shacker at level 100, Impact at level 90, and Devastate , but you would like to unlearn Devastate in favor of Iop's Wrath , instead. To do so, you will need to drag the Devastate spell into the dedicated interface and the spells that you use in your next fights will then take experience from Devastate and will provide your Iop's Wrath with the experience that Devastate once had (given you utilized your Iop's Wrath spell). Doing so from single branch to double branch will also potentially give you a bigger amount of experience."

• "The respec transference system is only useful once you have 'capped' the spell experience and cannot learn any new spells"

• "The single-element user will be more specialized and effective within their branch, but on the contrary, a multi-branch users will be more versatile to the situation at hand as they will have more spells to utilize and more elementary masteries in their favor.

• "Players will have to make choices, and I think this is a good thing, because it will differentiate players who have put careful thought behind their builds from those who don't. Before, it was mainly the mass of generated experience that made the difference."

• "The new system was our first big assignment as Play Testers – although it was truly the work of the Developers. Our next focus for us is on the classes themselves; we've already started the review process on Sadidas, but alas this is not the subject of the topic at hand."

• "It would be nice to have a final overview (level 200) to give a sense of choice direction, but in all cases, it is possible to re-specialize once you reach max level, allowing you not to worry so much! Logically, at character level 200, it is quite possible to have 3 Fire spells at level 100 and 2 Earth spells at level 100 (or an Earth spell at level 100 along with an Air spell at level 100, if you're picky)."

• "As far as what your current characters will get when the system is implemented, you will have 30% of experience, but if you put the experience in the same branch, whatever exceeds 1/3 of the total amount of experience will be reduced by 50%, so basically you will have 10% + 20% / 2 = 20%. Likewise if you put half in one branch and half in another branch, it will then be 30% total experience with 15% in each branch. Spending 10% in the same branch will exceed 1/3 of the total experience, so the remaining 5% will be divided by 2 which ultimately will be (10% + 5% / 2) + (10 + 5% / 2) = 12.5% ​​+ 12.5% ​​= 25%. That's how you can go from 30% total experience to 20% total experience in single and 25% in dual element. However, you can very well have 24% + in a branch compared to another, but at the end you are the one deciding how you want to distribute your experience."

• "The items giving spell level bonus will remain, and I even feel comfortable saying that they will play a big role in your future builds. Rather than leveling up 2 level to 100 spells, it will surely be much more cost effective to have three spells at level 85 and +5 spell levels from items, putting the three spells at 90, but I leave this theory to the theorycrafters to have fun. Although… note that the +2 spell level runes will have an increased value..."

• "The new system makes it easier for players to use several elements, but does not prevent the use of a single element, either."

• "In the update, there will be a reset of all spells for all characters, regardless of level. This will include a spell reset AND specialties/stats. Once the Content Update is deployed, out comes the possibility of re-specializing the spells once max experience level is reached – but it is not instantaneous. The respec will only be available every time you reach your max level. So it's 105 today, it will soon be 110, and in the very long term it will be 200."

• "I will explain further why the transference respec is not accessible before reaching max level: The respec allows one to transfer experience of a spell to another by fighting. Once the max level of spell experience is reached, the same way that you get experience on a spell before the max level will be used to transfer experience away. Why is it unnecessary to remove experience from a spell when we have not reached the maximum spell experience? Say you're level 50, you have your experience in the Air branch, but for some reason you want to use the Fire branch more. Why spend time to remove the xp from the Air branch since you can level up the Fire branch spells by fighting creatures to level it quickly enough the classic way."

• "The respec is really only useful if you have reached your maximum spell experience and want to add experience on a spell and less on another; it is basically fine-tuning. It is useless to refine as long as you can still earn experience, and finally leveling up the spells that you want to play at this point."

• " Spell Scrolls will be replaced by tokens that you will whether or not they have been used, but what will count will be the completion of the achievement."

Kowac (Play Tester):

• "The re-balancing of classes has already begun but it's so vast that you will have to wait a little while for the review to be completed."

• "I would like to share with you the calculation of the elemental mastery: you first start by sorting out your spells per level and then follow this calculation: (“Spell 1” x 0.1 + “Spell 2” x 0.6 + “Spell 3 * 0.7 + “Spell 4” x 0.3 + “Spell 5” x 0.3) if I'm not mistaken, of course. Those coefficients are 0.1, 0.6, 0.7, 0.3, and 0.3 per spell level by sorting them from highest to lowest."

• "I would like to also give an example regarding the transfer of spell experience: let's say that I am level 100 and I have 2 Fire spells at level 100 (single branch). I decided to level up an Air spell at the expense of a Fire spell. As long as my Air branch is less than 1/3 of my total spell experience, my Fire spell is going to give the Air spell double experience. I'll then go from 2 fire spells at level 100 to one level 100 Fire spell, another at about level 77 and an Air spell at level 100.Now I redo the same thing in reverse: the experience of my Air spell level 100 will be this time divided by 2 by transferring it to a Fire spell, because my Fire branch represents more than a third of my total spell experience. So the experience of my Air spell will simply make my Fire spell go from level 77 to level 100, and I find myself with the result that I had at the beginning."

• "In fact it is this system of experience ratios 'below 1/3' and 'above 1/3' that makes the multi-element potential (if has a perfect sharing of spell experience). Have 50% more total experience than the player using single element (or a total of six spells instead of 4). In fact a perfectly balanced multi element player should have 1/3 of its spell xp in each branch, reaching the maximal potential of spell experience."

• "The thing to understand is that at level 72 you will move from a system with experience per level and a fixed gain rate of experience (about 10% of the character's experience) to a linear gain rate until reaching level 100 spell, as well as an adaptive ratio for you to always be able to level up your spells as you level your own character up."

• "A spell which has its experience transferred cannot lose more than one level per fight so you always have complete control, minus reaching the condition level of the transfer."

• "Whether you are single or multi-element, it will not affect the system: it is the percentage of the overall amount of experience you have in your branch that is taken into account. The transfer while leveling is to change the experience distribution that is done within the branches, which is done also in combat when you gain experience. Using one branch only is different, the ratios will be between the spells, that's when the transfer of experience can also help your new spell to level."

Grou (Play Tester)

• "To give you an idea of when one speaks about x spell level 100, you should know that: a level 100 spell in terms of xp = 3 level 70 spells, or also a level 100 spell in terms of xp = 1 level 70 spell + 1 level 85 spell. These values are approximate and are only given so that so you can get an idea of your possibilities."

• "At level 100 it will be possible to have: 2 spells level 100 in a branch or 1 spell level 100 in each branch. At level 200, it will be possible to have: 4 spell level 100 in a branch or 2 spells level 100 in each branch.
  • Example 1 (three elements): FIRE: 84/54/54/54/54, AIR: 100/49/0/0/0, EARTH: 62/62/62/62/62
  • Example 2 (single element): FIRE: 95/80/63/63/63, AIR: 0/0/0/0/0, EARTH: 0/0/0/0/0
  • Example 3 (single element): FIRE: 0/0/0/0/0, AIR: 74/74/74/74/74, EARTH: 0/0/0/0/0
  • Example 4 (single element): FIRE: 0/0/0/0/0, AIR: 0/0/0/0/0, EARTH: 100/100/57/0/0
  • Example 5 (single element with a bit of experience in the other branch): FIRE: 30/30/30/30/30, AIR: 100/100/43/0/0, EARTH: 30/30/30/30/30
  • Example 6 (dual element distributed 33% and 66%): FIRE: 90/70/58/58/58, AIR: 62/62/62/62/62, EARTH: 0/0/0/0/0
  • Example (dual element) FIRE: 0/0/0/0/0, AIR: 100/82/0/0/0, EARTH: 84/54/54/54/47."

• "The character experience curve is not affected. The spell experience curve has been modified: before you would need 24 million (roughly) to level a spell to level 100, so close to half (10 million) to get a spell from level 90 to level 100. Now it takes more than 14 million. And the curve is "smooth", meaning the last 10 Levels do not require half of the total experience of the spell. (note: level 70 = 5,000,000, level 85 = 5,000,000 and level 100 = 14 millions). Here are some examples regarding this subject:
  • A player who plays three elements (33% of experience in each of their branches) will have: FIRE: 15,000,000 XP, EARTH: 15,000,000 XP, AIR: 15,000,000 XP.
  • If he plays more with the Fire branch and not at all Air branch: FIRE: 22,500,000 XP, EARTH: 15,000,000 XP, AIR: 0 XP. So basically the "magic" formula is when a branch has more than one third of total experience, each experience point is then divided by 2.
  • So if a player plays throughout the leveling of his character level 98 with 1 Air spell and 1 Earth spell, he will then have: FIRE: 28,800,000 XP, EARTH: 600 000 XP, AIR: 600 000 XP.
  • Least but not last, a player that has used level 100 Fire spells for all combats: FIRE: 30,000,000 XP, EARTH: 0 XP and AIR: 0 XP. And the player who will cast 30 spells out of each element in combat is going to have 15 million xp in each of their branches."

• "It is not possible to trick the system but it is possible to "lose" experience by how we are using our spells. To overcome this, if you "lose" experience during a fight you can recover it quickly via a bonus on upcoming fights. So you always stay very close to the maximum experience you can get at your level. So you can never screw up your character."

Conclusion

You may not find all the answers to your current questions regarding the new spell experience system , but rest assured that we are forwarding them to the Development team for review. Expect more information in the future.

This ends this special "Q&A: Feedback #12" session, we are looking forward to the next one, so keep your questions and feedback coming! 


This post has been edited by Resonate - June 02, 2012, 15:16:44.

could you please explain the dmg and res per spell level? will it change?

This was just a script of the Q&A session that I took from the server Nox, but I believe there won't be any change in damage/res ratio.

Don't quote me on this. It's just that there hasn't been any mention about such change. The source of such rumor was probably from the prototype image in the announcement of the spell system, which was said to be ignorable by Troyle.


This post has been edited by Resonate - June 02, 2012, 16:10:38.

But if the ratio stays the same, our dmg output from spells will double, I have around 80% dmg from spell bonus and if it would be to much if you double that. I think it would be unbalanced if that doesn't change.

It won't be doubled I think. If you look at the example where the character put all exp into one branch, at best you get something like 74/74/74/74/74 or 100/100/57/0/0, which is just slightly more than what I'm seeing right now. The bonus comes from the total spell level, not what level they are (lvl 100 or 57). The 1st set (above) would actually give more dmg/res bonus than the 2nd set.

+At any one time you have the same number of AP/MP/WP so you can only throw out a limited number of spell. Their base don't get doubled so there's no reason for the damage to be doubled. Best damage you can do at anytime is to use up all AP/MP/WP on your strongest one spell. So if your other spells get a few more level (70 instead of 60 for example), your damage won't get anywhere near the double amount.

In fact, the capability of having spells in all 3 branches of relatively high level (60+) while having 1-2 main spells at maxed will let you have stronger resist while maintaining your damage at good level.

for example i have 240 spell lvls in my water branch atm, this gives me a bonus dmg of 96% since 5 lvls give 2% dmg. the new update can give me 364 lvls in an element, that would mean its possible to get a bonus of 145%. I think this is abit on the high side ^^

Yeah, but 50% when you already have 350%+ damage would be like +1/8 or 1/9 of the current damage. Considering everyone has the chance to raise an equivalent amount of resist for 2 more elements, it's quite fair I think

People throwing all exp to maximize their damage have to accept some loss in resist and vice versa.

Example 5 (single element with a bit of experience in the other branch): FIRE: 30/30/30/30/30, AIR: 100/100/43/0/0, EARTH: 30/30/30/30/30
This is good idea.
You got 30% Fire and Earth Resist.

When Fight Small Koko
I have 0% resist air... small koko deal me 52dmg.
When i use Kokosoda (+12% all resist) small koko deal me 42dmg

So... 30% resist is not small :] 

Ok here is my thing.I am fire branch and my branch is like this,80,79,80,78,100 with no + fire spell rune/equipment but i used all general spell scrolls i think.So what i am getting is that i will get nerfed?like you mention above one branch going 74 for all spells or 2 max 1 lvl 5x spell while 2 spell is at 0.I can't seem to like like this change.And no I don't really want to go multi element.I just want to be fire.

This is aimed at a future of level 200 where you can have 4 level 100 spells if only using 1 branch, which means you can have 3 level 100 spells and 2 level 70+ spells in that branch so in effect you will eventually be good

I wonder though if you are not one of those level 105 people who had trained their spells before the spell exp lock. In that case, it will indeed feel like your total spell exp will be less than before and will never be the same again.

I don't really get your point.But I had full wisdom before 2nd of May.I Leveled all spells equally then aimed my main spell and made it max before spell exp lock came.So no matter how i look this is like,I achieved something like getting spells high as level 160-170(?)iop for future.And now it will be gone and i have to wait for new contents and level up and so on.Doesn't that makes it sounds weird?I for myself find it hassle and this kind of thing puts me off...

I have to say upcoming patch is promising but i might not be able to play long.

Well, the free progression of spells before was announced as "not intended". Though it is Ankama's fault to not make it clear earlier.

You did achieve something back then and it is true that you will lose that achievement soon. However, on an equal ground, it is for the fairness of all players. Playing longer or coming first will no longer translate to power advantage. If at all it will now remain as gameplay experience advantage only. You will know what to get, what not to get, how to utilize your spells & abilities at best to win it over newcomers.

It doesn't matter though. Wakfu is just a game and people should play it when they feel like playing it, just to explore the game, the mechanics, optimizing yourself within limitation, etc. It's not something a part of your life where you have to constantly have something to do (unrestrained boundary), or to grind, to get ahead of others and show them your superiority.

The subscription is cheap. It's not something you have to think twice before subbing. When you feel like it would be interesting to drop in the game for a few hours and test out something, just sub for a week or even a month. It's almost like buying a meal, which usually fills you up for about 6-7 hours.

When you think your character has hit its limit, you are not interested in doing professions, trying out another class or doing anything helpful to guild members just for the sake of socializing in a digital world, then it is time to stop, not necessarily permanent, but just stop because it's the time to do so. Do something else you can think of that is useful in real life that you usually don't do it. After a month or so if you think Wakfu or another game is interesting then just play them if you feel like doing so.

What I mean is that don't pressure yourself on certain thing. If we gain something then we gain something. If we lose something and that can't be undone then just accept it. If that loss causes us disappointment then instead of grieving over it, better find other ways to make things better.

You are playing a Fire Sacrier, which apparently is a very strong class. At your level there will barely be any more achievable progress in the close future. Despite everyone's gain in this patch, for you it will be an irrecoverable loss. My advice for you is to either try out a different class or quit the game. No offense here but that's a rational thing to do. You have made your mark in Wakfu as a strong Sacrier, and apparently you have hit the "Ending" of the game. Two choices: Consider it's done and over or Do a replay.

Well actually i have four accounts.The character i mentioned was iop.True, I do have sacrier and it's fire.But It was earth originally so i had strong earth spell(one actually which is near max level.)while other spells at level 50 range.Then I tried fire after seeing one fire sacrier and it influenced me to go fire instead of building tank/support.But with spell exp cap i couldn't level fire spells as high as earth branch.With upcoming patch I can make it possible of course and i am so cool with that.

I am not actually like the people who compains everyday about bugs or unfairness of the game.In fact I really enjoy playing.Never had intention of bragging or just become superior to anyone and I believe i wasn't doing it still.I don't pvp because I find it less rewarding(for now?).I would if something like dofus pvp system(doesn't have to be copy pasta method)were included such as wings or bounty quests maybe.

I really love Wakfu.It's really fun to play.But it's like game changing dramaticly while we are still playing and good sides of game that i get fun from disappears with new contents.Well guess there will be always something new to do.and I shouldn't complain much..

For the conclusion,I am not stopping.I will still play.Wish it will go on.Wish Ankama to never take that joy from me.

Your No life grinder.

so that means to be the best you can be you will have to stop using those spells completely at level 85 spell or they will level as you use them, would it not just be much better to have the level cap at 100, but have it possible for +spell level to make it past lvl 100


your spell is level 100 and you equip an item with +6 spell level, so your spell is lvl 106, that way people dont need to worry about casting spells at level 85 so they are free to level these spells to higher levels without worrying about the effect of these +spell level bonuses.

People can cast spells all how they want to until they have reached maxed level. At that time they can withdraw the exp from maxed spell and transfer them to other spells so that the "de-leveled" spell will still be at level 100 after adding the spell level boost from gears.

Some people still dont get it.
you pay more time to play this game,and your skill lv is really high.
But dont forget,you are most in Wisdom-time,and maybe 50% have the bug by Wolfs used .
You guys destroy the Balance of this world,watch the worldboss,and make the meaningless pvp.

just get off.
Ankama and wir normal player hate these 'super players'.you will not be super anymore,you can be killed like a sheep by me.so be easy,this ist a kind of balance game,like DOTA.

i hope,you can understand.

if not,nobody cares,XD

this suck in my opinion..(not flaming)

the current spell system is already ok.. no one is op cuz the ones that lvl their spells grind their asses out for that xp and they earned those spells xp in the first place... they ddnt just get all spells to 100 out of the blue.. but there is no sense in arguing cuz dev decide the players fate and doesnt listen to the players opinions...

Thing is: ppl get op because they grind their asses off to get that xp.

Wakfu is supposed to be a strategical game, you shouldnt lose a pvp just because someone else grind more than you. You should lose because his strategy was superior to yours.

Now there is still worldboss gear, but that will change eventually too


This post has been edited by Chrolo - June 11, 2012, 20:32:37.

There still a thing I don't get. We know the spells will get 20% or 25% or 30% of the fight exp if 1,2 or 3 element are used in that fight.

My questions are: if I use only one element from level 1 to 105 will i be screwed of a 10% of total spell exp?
In this case should I use other branch's spell at least once in a fight to have the max amount of spell exp at level 105?
And if I do so will I be able at the end to redistribute the spell exp of the other 2 branches in the main having the 30% of my total spell exp in a single branch?

I know that based on the description given the answer to the last question should be no, but i don't get how it could work; I can figure how the problem could be solved if I have all the exp in a single branch, let's say i have done this, at cap level if i choose to transfer the exp from a spell of my branch into 1 of another branch if I loose 1000 exp from the first spell the second could gain 1500, but in the opposite situation i don't know.

Please if someone who already is at the cap could answer/test this would really help, Grou said that you can't screw your character but I'm not sure about this.