Quote (XjumperX @ 29 January 2014 02:37)
The problem with pp cap is that for a lot of things now, enu aren't the best at dropping:
Low lvl mats - faster with a good aoe DD in pp gear
UBs, various 3x3 boss, relic frags - no pouch
Whisper dungs - no pp needed for key parts
Arena (and shushu?) - no pp needed
With gear/candy/chall you can normally get to 100-150pp on a non pp char so there's no real advantage to taking an enu for their dropping skills. For me, I don't don't really like a simple pp cap increase, i'd prefer something like this - treasure hunter pp bonus is added ontop of cap and changed so that instead of 100pp, it's 50pp, 25% dmg, 10pp to allies at max lvl, that way everyone benefits.
So many things I disagree with in this thread. You say for many things Enu's are not the best at dropping items. I don't even know where to begin.
- Enu's are one of the strongest AoE DPS in the game.
- Yes, you can't pouch some things. But UB's only get one Challenge and sometimes are impossible to complete. Enu's will have the max PP bonus at the end when others may not.
- Haiku keys are not relevant. You might as well say PP doesn't help me fish.
- True, Arena doesn't require PP. But that hardly makes it worthless as Enu's get a 150% dmg passive from PP. How many other classes get 150% passive dmg bonus?
Very few people have endless amounts of candy, always wear PP gear, and complete the Challenges successfully every time. Only some classes and builds will accomplish this. Enu's can flat out ignore all of this. Speeding up how fast they kill in the process.
Quote (Asthis @ 29 January 2014 02:09)
Raising the cap just by 50 pp is not going to break the game.
It's not going to help the game in a meaningful way either.
Quote (Kouromaro @ 29 January 2014 02:06)
Unlike how many, Tashlol, for example, think, looting is seriously not that much of a visible advantage. I remember vaguely there were a time when the mechanic makes looting dependable. However that does not feel the case anymore. While it is indeed an advantage, it is not big.
When it comes to single target, uh, as a water enu, I think I am weaker than the pure dd classes. However it is indeed not by much less. Many argue they are on par, like you said.
About AoE damage you mean fire, then I am not sure... there are not a lot of fire enu around for me to really compare, but I have always had this impression they are really hard to play and not very good at dd. Earth enu in serious dd mode has a huge damage AoE spell, but alas, very short-ranged (effectively close ranged for the first 80+ levels) and the AoE is but a small 2x1.
Also please remember before water Enu (or any Enu, really, but many earth don't seem to care) can bring out their full strength, we need to charge on mine for ~1-2 turn.
I also have to argue against the 6 enu pt... I mean... I don't see any way that is viable for end-game contents... If you bring lv130+ to mid-game content, then the current state of the game is that you can bring any 6 character, pp geared to 150, and ravage everything. If you argue that that other classes take more time because enus can charge pp on mines, I assure you they don't. Charging pp in itself cost time, and unless you are playing all characters yourself, that results in quite some time cost, compare to just "Charge in, guns blazing."
Anyhow, I would trade a bit of water damage, like 1-2%, any day for a bit higher pp cap. (I do recall they already took a few % off in an update quite a while ago)
How is looting not a visible advantage? Yes, Enu's drop candy from pouches. Sounds like you want an item from their drop table 100% of the time. That's too much, and as Demon pointed out, whatever increase you want further invites players to roll an Enu.
What are you basing your impression about Fire Enu's AoE capabilities on exactly? Let's compare Wrath and Magma. Both 6AP & 1WP spells.
Hot Magma: 203dmg + 59-295dmg (1-5 mines). Treasure Tracker + Mine = 180% dmg(?)
Iop's Wrath: 172dmg + 50 explosion dmg at 66% activation rate. Compulsion + Authority = 140%, Show Off, another possible 100% for only one hit.
PLEASE NOTE: I'm comparing an Enu and an IOP, that should tell you something. Enu's also have extendable range and noLoS AoE's with great base damages. Iop's have a wider AoE but is CC only.
Both classes take 2 turns or so to build up their passives. Stating that it takes an Enu 2 turns to gain 50 of their potential 180% elemental bonus is nothing. Iops only start with 40 themselves and can't even use Show Off when solo.
My point about a 6 man Enu party has nothing to do with it's viability. It has to do with bringing as many Enu's as you can and still win the fight. Sure, some teams can wear 150pp in gear and still win. But your team sacrifices dmg and other stats in doing so. What do you suggest an end game fire/air character wears to reach 150PP?
It's not as easy as you think. Those characters sacrifice a lot of stats to hit cap. Enu's don't even need to build up PP for mines when farming. They most likely already hit cap from gear alone. Worst case it takes them one turn.
How can you argue another team can easily reach the PP cap and match Enu's while asking for a PP increase that would make the non Enu team incapable of matching the Enu's, period. That would be another reason to only use Enu's.
Whatever you think about an Enu... this simple fact remains, Enu's are a strong addition to any party EVEN WITHOUT their advantages when dropping items. The more you ask to improve that advantage, the more players feel obligated to roll an Enu because dropping loot is a large part of the game. If you really disagree about an Enu's strength in combat there is nothing I can say to change that. Most people who complain about Enu's play pure water from my experience. Fire and Earth especially are extremely strong.
This post has been edited by Gynrei - January 29, 2014, 19:42:43.