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Thoughts about raising PP Cap for Enutrofs?
Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2013-05-06
posté January 28, 2014, 19:59:07 | #21

Quote (Noobility @ 28 January 2014 04:57) *
Sure enutrof is the treasure hunting class. That's the RP for it. Yet do sadidas make plants grow faster? Do osas raise pets faster? Enus the one getting a non-combat benefit from their RP. Giving a class 2x+ base drop is stupid to begin with. That advantage should get delete or greatly reduced, get rid of pp locks and raise drop rates across the board for everyone.
But you see, the entire reason many people made an Enu was for the loot bonus. The water tree is entirely centered around prospecting and loot. That would be like putting a cap on heal% for an Eniripsa.

By all means, I am also not suggest the cap be removed. But it should be a little higher, at least to compensate for the lack of a drop table revamp until they get that sorted out.

I should also mention that I don't play an Enu. I'm not saying this because i'm upset my PP got capped or anything. It stimulates the economy to have people consistently dropping good loot and selling it (or as i've known a few Enus to do, give it away).

Unrelated, I think it would be a little bit cool if classes had certain little bonuses outside of the norm, like Osas giving 1% more exp to their pets when they feed them, or Sadida's getting a 1% bonus to planting speed. It wouldn't be enough to matter, but it would be a fun little easter egg to each of the classes that everyone could discover.
Rogues would get a 1% damage bonus while fighting as or with an outlaw, perhaps.
Eniripsa's could craft kenko with 100% success at lvl 0 chef.
Masqueraider's could get a 1% damage bonus while wearing a costume.
Etc, etc.


This post has been edited by Meowsa - January 28, 2014, 20:12:08.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-12-11
posté January 28, 2014, 20:07:47 | #22

Quote (Kouromaro @ 28 January 2014 19:20) *

Quote (Gynrei @ 28 January 2014 15:55) *
Ankama can't remove the PP cap now without making large changes to the game.
To answer the OP, No, don't raise the PP cap, especially not just for Enu's.
May I remind you that I ask about a raise, not remove?

What you just said is remove, which is indeed bad.

Again, a raise.

I was commenting on posts given within this thread and my thoughts regarding them seem to be very relevant to this topic.

I even answered your question directly, clearly using the word 'raise'.

The hunt for gear is a very significant part of Wakfu. Giving such a huge advantage to one class when obtaining loot is not my idea of a balanced MMO. Enu still has Max PP every fight regardless and can pouch mobs at will. That should be more than enough for anyone imo. But i understand the frustration because at one point during Wakfu's life... Enu's were far ahead of the pack. Now they're just ahead.


Teethless Sharkie * Member Since 2011-04-26
posté January 28, 2014, 21:35:32 | #23

Quote (Gynrei @ 28 January 2014 20:07) *

I was commenting on posts given within this thread and my thoughts regarding them seem to be very relevant to this topic.

I even answered your question directly, clearly using the word 'raise'.

The hunt for gear is a very significant part of Wakfu. Giving such a huge advantage to one class when obtaining loot is not my idea of a balanced MMO. Enu still has Max PP every fight regardless and can pouch mobs at will. That should be more than enough for anyone imo. But i understand the frustration because at one point during Wakfu's life... Enu's were far ahead of the pack. Now they're just ahead.
Eh, my bad. You were giving so much thoughts on the "remove the cap" ordeal that I thought you were only talking about PP cap removal. Anyhow, I now don't really get why you are against a slight pp cap advantage for enus then.

I am not very convinced it will break the balance. Many MMOs have a whole thief class who can steal, and keep stealing until they succeed if they choose to do so. I feel like you look at Wakfu as a multi-player competitive game. But if we look at it from a co-operative viewpoint, then I think this slight advantage is not game-breaking.

As a matter of fact, we should also look at the trade-off. What is the trade-off for Enu to have a PP advantage? Not being able to deal damage as much as the damage dealing classes, of course.


This post has been edited by Kouromaro - January 28, 2014, 21:43:31.
Squited Arachnee * Member Since 2012-02-28
posté January 28, 2014, 22:57:29 | #24
I think they ruined the purpose of making an Enu when they capped all players at 150. YES, RAISE PP CAP FOR ENUS, TREASURE HUNTERS SHOULD BE ABLE TO TREASURE HUNT.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-12-11
posté January 28, 2014, 22:58:02 | #25

Quote (Kouromaro @ 28 January 2014 21:35) *
I am not very convinced it will break the balance. Many MMOs have a whole thief class who can steal, and keep stealing until they succeed if they choose to do so.
As a matter of fact, we should also look at the trade-off. What is the trade-off for Enu to have a PP advantage? Not being able to deal damage as much as the damage dealing classes, of course.

Many MMO's do have classes that can steal. Enu's pouch is the same thing it just doesn't work on UB's. Enu's essentially get 150PP every fight that other players have to work that much harder for. You can't guarantee the Challenge you'll receive. You only get one for UB's btw, which means you must wear PP gear reducing your performance.

Enu's don't suffer from the trade off you speak of. They do not suffer from low dmg while taking advantage of increased drop rates. They actually gain dmg from it. Enu's are awesome AoE and single target DPS.

The current state of the game is a 6 Enu party has the best chance at loot, period. Players are given the illusion of being on par with Enu's but in reality you need to get the right Challenges and complete them through all their bugs to match Enu's.

I think Enu's have a satisfactory advantage when dropping items. All players just need a global increase in drop rates or some other improvement. (This will help Enu's too)


Quote (xCATZILAx @ 28 January 2014 22:57) *
I think they ruined the purpose of making an Enu when they capped all players at 150. YES, RAISE PP CAP FOR ENUS, TREASURE HUNTERS SHOULD BE ABLE TO TREASURE HUNT.

Enu's are able to treasure hunt better than anyone else. Why should all the loot go to Enu's? Don't say they are the treasure hunter/loot class... that's not a reason.


Teethless Sharkie * Member Since 2011-04-26
posté January 29, 2014, 02:06:06 | #26

Quote (Gynrei @ 28 January 2014 22:58) *

Many MMO's do have classes that can steal. Enu's pouch is the same thing it just doesn't work on UB's. Enu's essentially get 150PP every fight that other players have to work that much harder for. You can't guarantee the Challenge you'll receive. You only get one for UB's btw, which means you must wear PP gear reducing your performance.

Enu's don't suffer from the trade off you speak of. They do not suffer from low dmg while taking advantage of increased drop rates. They actually gain dmg from it. Enu's are awesome AoE and single target DPS.

The current state of the game is a 6 Enu party has the best chance at loot, period. Players are given the illusion of being on par with Enu's but in reality you need to get the right Challenges and complete them through all their bugs to match Enu's.

I think Enu's have a satisfactory advantage when dropping items. All players just need a global increase in drop rates or some other improvement. (This will help Enu's too)
About looting, I think you completely forgot what Aquabeauty said much earlier in the post.

Quote (aquabeauty @ 28 January 2014 02:59) *
It is Halloween alll yearrr around now.


Candyyy alll dayy, alll dayyyy.... everrryyyy dayyyy everrryy day
Unlike how many, Tashlol, for example, think, looting is seriously not that much of a visible advantage. I remember vaguely there were a time when the mechanic makes looting dependable. However that does not feel the case anymore. While it is indeed an advantage, it is not big.

When it comes to single target, uh, as a water enu, I think I am weaker than the pure dd classes. However it is indeed not by much less. Many argue they are on par, like you said.

About AoE damage you mean fire, then I am not sure... there are not a lot of fire enu around for me to really compare, but I have always had this impression they are really hard to play and not very good at dd. Earth enu in serious dd mode has a huge damage AoE spell, but alas, very short-ranged (effectively close ranged for the first 80+ levels) and the AoE is but a small 2x1.

Also please remember before water Enu (or any Enu, really, but many earth don't seem to care) can bring out their full strength, we need to charge on mine for ~1-2 turn.

I also have to argue against the 6 enu pt... I mean... I don't see any way that is viable for end-game contents... If you bring lv130+ to mid-game content, then the current state of the game is that you can bring any 6 character, pp geared to 150, and ravage everything. If you argue that that other classes take more time because enus can charge pp on mines, I assure you they don't. Charging pp in itself cost time, and unless you are playing all characters yourself, that results in quite some time cost, compare to just "Charge in, guns blazing."

Anyhow, I would trade a bit of water damage, like 1-2%, any day for a bit higher pp cap. (I do recall they already took a few % off in an update quite a while ago) 


Vamp'emo * Member Since 2006-10-23
posté January 29, 2014, 02:09:27 | #27
Raising the cap just by 50 pp is not going to break the game.


Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2012-04-13
posté January 29, 2014, 02:37:12 | #28
The problem with pp cap is that for a lot of things now, enu aren't the best at dropping:
Low lvl mats - faster with a good aoe DD in pp gear
UBs, various 3x3 boss, relic frags - no pouch
Whisper dungs - no pp needed for key parts
Arena (and shushu?) - no pp needed

With gear/candy/chall you can normally get to 100-150pp on a non pp char so there's no real advantage to taking an enu for their dropping skills. For me, I don't don't really like a simple pp cap increase, i'd prefer something like this - treasure hunter pp bonus is added ontop of cap and changed so that instead of 100pp, it's 50pp, 25% dmg, 10pp to allies at max lvl, that way everyone benefits.


Teethless Sharkie * Member Since 2011-04-26
posté January 29, 2014, 06:47:30 | #29

Quote (XjumperX @ 29 January 2014 02:37) *
With gear/candy/chall you can normally get to 100-150pp on a non pp char so there's no real advantage to taking an enu for their dropping skills. For me, I don't don't really like a simple pp cap increase, i'd prefer something like this - treasure hunter pp bonus is added ontop of cap and changed so that instead of 100pp, it's 50pp, 25% dmg, 10pp to allies at max lvl, that way everyone benefits.
What do you mean? For the enu? I am confused... so you do want something beyond the current pp cap, but instead of enus just breaking the cap, you want enus to gain some interesting bonuses, is that what you are saying?

I personally prefer straightforward pp, because it is.... straightforward? And excess pp = damage% already, with or without the pp cap.


Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2012-04-13
posté January 29, 2014, 11:49:52 | #30
Well atm all classes have 150pp max so an enu can have 150pp from base/gear and then buff 100 on mines, giving him 250 visable pp. This equates to 125 dmg bonus but still only 150pp worth of dropping bonus. My proposal is to have mines buff by 50pp to enu/10pp to allies and also 25 dmg. This would essentially give the same mg bonus (50 dmg from mines) but also give the enu 200pp worth of dropping as well as allowing alllies to obtain 160pp worth of dropping max, instead of a straight 150pp cap.


Tofurby on Diet * Member Since 2012-10-15
posté January 29, 2014, 16:00:32 | #31
As an Enutrof, extra loot is appreciated, but I feel it's rather unnecessary. As it stands now, the Enutrof is a dog that is forced to constantly dig up lots of crap, which is really pitiful. From Treasure Hunter to Fido with the click of the 'Confirm' button after giving it a name during Character Selection.

For those saying that PP makes the treasure hunter/crazy prospector, you're obviously being oblivious to the rest of their battle abilities that makes them the crazy prospector/treasure hunters. Mines, knowledge of the land, the ability to reduce movement to keep enemies at bay, Shovels,etc.


The biggest mistake the Devs made for the Enutrof was Treasure Tracker, which was a straight up invitation for everyone to make an Enutrof with tons of PP. When I first tried out the Enutrof here [after playing Dofus], I found it interesting that they made PP into something somewhat useful [as PP w***e Enus on Dofus can reach 600 PP, but their battle abilities are terrible], but it's a pitiful excuse to hoard up to 500 PP.

_______

I apologize for starting off topic, but the next bit will have my answer to the OP's topic:

To the OP, no. It's like the initial 20 PP bonus the Dofus Devs decided to give to the Enutrofs as well as a chest summon that picks up extra loot, both being huge mistakes. And before any Dofus player gets on my case, Enutrofs lost their 20PP bonus and they have said they will likely remove the extra loot roll from the chest.

______

As someone stated, they need to improve the drop rate/system. However, the pouches need to go as well.

-From an Enutrof


This post has been edited by demonfoxassassin - January 29, 2014, 21:07:05.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-12-11
posté January 29, 2014, 19:37:05 | #32

Quote (XjumperX @ 29 January 2014 02:37) *
The problem with pp cap is that for a lot of things now, enu aren't the best at dropping:
Low lvl mats - faster with a good aoe DD in pp gear
UBs, various 3x3 boss, relic frags - no pouch
Whisper dungs - no pp needed for key parts
Arena (and shushu?) - no pp needed

With gear/candy/chall you can normally get to 100-150pp on a non pp char so there's no real advantage to taking an enu for their dropping skills. For me, I don't don't really like a simple pp cap increase, i'd prefer something like this - treasure hunter pp bonus is added ontop of cap and changed so that instead of 100pp, it's 50pp, 25% dmg, 10pp to allies at max lvl, that way everyone benefits.

So many things I disagree with in this thread. You say for many things Enu's are not the best at dropping items. I don't even know where to begin.

  • Enu's are one of the strongest AoE DPS in the game.
  • Yes, you can't pouch some things. But UB's only get one Challenge and sometimes are impossible to complete. Enu's will have the max PP bonus at the end when others may not.
  • Haiku keys are not relevant. You might as well say PP doesn't help me fish.
  • True, Arena doesn't require PP. But that hardly makes it worthless as Enu's get a 150% dmg passive from PP. How many other classes get 150% passive dmg bonus?
Very few people have endless amounts of candy, always wear PP gear, and complete the Challenges successfully every time. Only some classes and builds will accomplish this. Enu's can flat out ignore all of this. Speeding up how fast they kill in the process.


Quote (Asthis @ 29 January 2014 02:09) *
Raising the cap just by 50 pp is not going to break the game.

It's not going to help the game in a meaningful way either.


Quote (Kouromaro @ 29 January 2014 02:06) *
Unlike how many, Tashlol, for example, think, looting is seriously not that much of a visible advantage. I remember vaguely there were a time when the mechanic makes looting dependable. However that does not feel the case anymore. While it is indeed an advantage, it is not big.

When it comes to single target, uh, as a water enu, I think I am weaker than the pure dd classes. However it is indeed not by much less. Many argue they are on par, like you said.

About AoE damage you mean fire, then I am not sure... there are not a lot of fire enu around for me to really compare, but I have always had this impression they are really hard to play and not very good at dd. Earth enu in serious dd mode has a huge damage AoE spell, but alas, very short-ranged (effectively close ranged for the first 80+ levels) and the AoE is but a small 2x1.

Also please remember before water Enu (or any Enu, really, but many earth don't seem to care) can bring out their full strength, we need to charge on mine for ~1-2 turn.

I also have to argue against the 6 enu pt... I mean... I don't see any way that is viable for end-game contents... If you bring lv130+ to mid-game content, then the current state of the game is that you can bring any 6 character, pp geared to 150, and ravage everything. If you argue that that other classes take more time because enus can charge pp on mines, I assure you they don't. Charging pp in itself cost time, and unless you are playing all characters yourself, that results in quite some time cost, compare to just "Charge in, guns blazing."

Anyhow, I would trade a bit of water damage, like 1-2%, any day for a bit higher pp cap. (I do recall they already took a few % off in an update quite a while ago)

How is looting not a visible advantage? Yes, Enu's drop candy from pouches. Sounds like you want an item from their drop table 100% of the time. That's too much, and as Demon pointed out, whatever increase you want further invites players to roll an Enu.

What are you basing your impression about Fire Enu's AoE capabilities on exactly? Let's compare Wrath and Magma. Both 6AP & 1WP spells.

Hot Magma: 203dmg + 59-295dmg (1-5 mines). Treasure Tracker + Mine = 180% dmg(?)

Iop's Wrath: 172dmg + 50 explosion dmg at 66% activation rate. Compulsion + Authority = 140%, Show Off, another possible 100% for only one hit.

PLEASE NOTE: I'm comparing an Enu and an IOP, that should tell you something. Enu's also have extendable range and noLoS AoE's with great base damages. Iop's have a wider AoE but is CC only.

Both classes take 2 turns or so to build up their passives. Stating that it takes an Enu 2 turns to gain 50 of their potential 180% elemental bonus is nothing. Iops only start with 40 themselves and can't even use Show Off when solo.

My point about a 6 man Enu party has nothing to do with it's viability. It has to do with bringing as many Enu's as you can and still win the fight. Sure, some teams can wear 150pp in gear and still win. But your team sacrifices dmg and other stats in doing so. What do you suggest an end game fire/air character wears to reach 150PP? It's not as easy as you think. Those characters sacrifice a lot of stats to hit cap. Enu's don't even need to build up PP for mines when farming. They most likely already hit cap from gear alone. Worst case it takes them one turn.

How can you argue another team can easily reach the PP cap and match Enu's while asking for a PP increase that would make the non Enu team incapable of matching the Enu's, period. That would be another reason to only use Enu's.

Whatever you think about an Enu... this simple fact remains, Enu's are a strong addition to any party EVEN WITHOUT their advantages when dropping items. The more you ask to improve that advantage, the more players feel obligated to roll an Enu because dropping loot is a large part of the game. If you really disagree about an Enu's strength in combat there is nothing I can say to change that. Most people who complain about Enu's play pure water from my experience. Fire and Earth especially are extremely strong.


This post has been edited by Gynrei - January 29, 2014, 19:42:43.
Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2012-04-13
posté January 29, 2014, 22:00:55 | #33
  1. I never said enus weren't good DD. I merely said that it's faster to farm low lvl mats with another char in pp gear. You're essentially saying that it's faster to farm low lvl mats with an enu than with a cra -.-
  2. The point is that the pp cap is so low that it's easy to achieve cap on most chars, esp for important fights.
  3. Erm.. yeah they're totally not important.. Not like you need them for one of the best weapons in the game -.-
  4. Hmm how many other classes benefit from 150% (or close) dmg passive...
Sadida - 150%
Iop - 40+100 = 140% (also prep/increase)
Xelor - 150+50 = 200%
Cra - ~50+60 = 110% (plus chd)
Eca - really random but i'm guessing around 150
Sac - 100+80 = 180%
Masq - 150%
Fog - costs a wp but 150% earth
Rogue - 150%

Apologies if figures are slightly off or I've missed a class but yeah... plenty of other classes benefit from ~150% dmg bonus passive. Your point that enus can ignore challs because they're already at max pp makes no sense if you're saying that other classes cannot achieve 150pp as an enu will still have to do the chall if he's grouped with other classes.

Having said all this, this wasn't even my point - I'm not disagreeing with the fact that enus aren't good DDs. My point was that enus should be the best class at dropping items but as you can see, this isn't always the case. If you want to argue that enus should be like any other class and only rp treasure hunters then fair enough, I can understand why you may want that. However, you're disageeing with my statement that for some things enus aren't the best class for dropping items. If you're going to make a treasure hunter class, they really should be the best at dropping, not just be able to hit the cap easier. The only other thing an enu has to get more drops are bags and they don't work on a lot of things


Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2011-09-12
posté January 29, 2014, 22:23:43 | #34

Quote (XjumperX @ 29 January 2014 22:00) *
  1. I never said enus weren't good DD. I merely said that it's faster to farm low lvl mats with another char in pp gear. You're essentially saying that it's faster to farm low lvl mats with an enu than with a cra -.-
  2. The point is that the pp cap is so low that it's easy to achieve cap on most chars, esp for important fights.
  3. Erm.. yeah they're totally not important.. Not like you need them for one of the best weapons in the game -.-
  4. Hmm how many other classes benefit from 150% (or close) dmg passive...
Sadida - 150%
Iop - 40+100 = 140% (also prep/increase)
Xelor - 150+50 = 200%
Cra - ~50+60 = 110% (plus chd)
Eca - really random but i'm guessing around 150
Sac - 100+80 = 180%
Masq - 150%
Fog - costs a wp but 150% earth
Rogue - 150%

Apologies if figures are slightly off or I've missed a class but yeah... plenty of other classes benefit from ~150% dmg bonus passive. Your point that enus can ignore challs because they're already at max pp makes no sense if you're saying that other classes cannot achieve 150pp as an enu will still have to do the chall if he's grouped with other classes.

Having said all this, this wasn't even my point - I'm not disagreeing with the fact that enus aren't good DDs. My point was that enus should be the best class at dropping items but as you can see, this isn't always the case. If you want to argue that enus should be like any other class and only rp treasure hunters then fair enough, I can understand why you may want that. However, you're disageeing with my statement that for some things enus aren't the best class for dropping items. If you're going to make a treasure hunter class, they really should be the best at dropping, not just be able to hit the cap easier. The only other thing an enu has to get more drops are bags and they don't work on a lot of things
It's funny this one:
- Sram - 50%


Vamp'emo * Member Since 2006-10-23
posté January 29, 2014, 23:38:11 | #35

Quote (Gynrei @ 29 January 2014 19:37) *

Quote (Asthis @ 29 January 2014 02:09) *
Raising the cap just by 50 pp is not going to break the game.

It's not going to help the game in a meaningful way either.

Help the game, or help the players? A 200 pp cap for ALL characters is what I would like to see. You may be comfortable with a lot of things in the game but that doesn't mean everyone else has to be.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-12-11
posté January 29, 2014, 23:40:11 | #36

Quote (XjumperX @ 29 January 2014 22:00) *
  1. I never said enus weren't good DD. I merely said that it's faster to farm low lvl mats with another char in pp gear. You're essentially saying that it's faster to farm low lvl mats with an enu than with a cra -.-

Saying it's faster to farm with another class in PP gear instead of an Enu means the Enu isn't as good lol.


Quote
The point is that the pp cap is so low that it's easy to achieve cap on most chars, esp for important fights.

So you want it to be difficult for everyone except the Enu? sounds fair =(


Quote
Erm.. yeah they're totally not important.. Not like you need them for one of the best weapons in the game -.-

What are you trying to say here? Haiku's are guaranteed drops needed to fight Shhuudoku. What does PP have to do with this?


Quote
Hmm how many other classes benefit from 150% (or close) dmg passive...

You have a lot of those values incorrect. I'm not going to list them right now. Many of them also are limited in use and take longer to raise. But regardless, it should be clear that Enu's have similar damage bonuses like the classes you listed. Combine that with their high base dmg AoE spells, especially compared to Cra, and you should see why Enu's can farm mobs just as easily.


Quote
Your point that enus can ignore challs because they're already at max pp makes no sense if you're saying that other classes cannot achieve 150pp as an enu will still have to do the chall if he's grouped with other classes.

I'm saying other classes have to sacrifice stats to reach 150PP through gear alone. Enu's do not. And if we accept that Enu's have comparable dmg numbers to other DPS. The classes losing stats in exchange for PP make Enu's stronger in comparison. In other words, they farm just as fast or maybe faster.

You can't count on Challenges. Farming island mobs or UB's gives you ONE Challenge for maybe 50PP. You also have to complete this challenge. What if the challenge is "don't get hit from the front" and first move you lose that bonus PP. Enu's can fail that safely because they don't need it. Another advantage.

You also made a good point. The Enu could purposely fail the challenges or ignore them all together because they already hit the cap and don't need them. True monopoly players should do this so less drops to others

You must be in some amazing groups to never fail a challenge or have everyone else wearing 150PP worth of gear at all times. Do not sit there and tell me this is the case. Because if it isn't the case, then that party full of Enu's... is better at farming loot. How many more examples do i need to give?

Some, very well organized groups can stay on level terms with the reliability of Enu's capped PP value, but it is by no means the norm.


Quote
My point was that enus should be the best class at dropping items but as you can see, this isn't always the case.
Quote
Quote
If you're going to make a treasure hunter class, they really should be the best at dropping, not just be able to hit the cap easier.

Enu's are the best at dropping items. They can pouch things no one else can for extra loot. They get free gifts from their god after battle. In every other encounter they are tied for the best at dropping items. I'm sorry this isn't good enough for you. Enu's are always at the PP cap. Every time another player or group fails to cap it's PP, ENu's get that much more loot than them. Accept it, Enu's get more loot. Please don't say it's not the case as I'm pretty sure we're playing the same game.

Giving Enu's an even bigger loot advantage is silly. Give everyone more loot, EQUALLY. Raising the PP cap for everyone isn't equal or fair because Enu's reach it so much easier than everyone else.


Quote (Asthis @ 29 January 2014 23:38) *

Help the game, or help the players? A 200 pp cap for ALL characters is what I would like to see. You may be comfortable with a lot of things in the game but that doesn't mean everyone else has to be.

I've stated many times the drop rates or drop system needs to be improved. By raising the PP cap you are simply widening the gap between Enu's and the rest of the classes when it comes to dropping loot. I don't want this.


Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2012-04-13
posté January 30, 2014, 01:15:46 | #37
Lol being able to kill things quickly isn't all about damage. To imply that is just funny. You're honestly saying that it's faster for an enu to kill low lvl mobs than a cra? Fire enu has to set up mines or have weird range on aoe spells. Earth enu has linear aoe. Water enu doesn't have aoe. Cra has better range...

I never said I wanted it more difficult for non enus, infact I said the opposite - I suggested enus offering a pp buff to allies. How on earth did you get that me saying it's easy to hit pp cap on most chars for important fights meant that I thought it should be harder??

Seriously are you reading or just saying random words?? As I said before, enus aren't the best at farming haikus because you don't need pp, thus making enu's dropping ability redundant

We're not even talking about dmg so this comment is completely pointless. I only posted to show you were completely wrong and you've done nothing to change my mind.

You're seriously saying that enu blessing helps enus?? You rarely get anything and when you do, you usually just delete because it's junk.

And yes, the whole point to my comment is that there are a lot of instances where enus don't get more loot than a non prospecting class which doesn't make sense.

With a fairly low pp cap, the only advantage an enu has to drops is bags and these don't work for a lot of things. That was my main point.

What you're saying is like stating you'd be fine with a dmg cap because dmg classes with 150% dmg passives can hit the cap easier than non DD classes and that it's fine at low lvls because it's hard to hit the cap. I understand that there needs to be something done about pp as enus used to be able to drop way more than others but I'd prefer something else rather than a straight cap as this means that enus only drop the same as other classes, not more as they should. The only thiing an enu has is bagging, which doesn't work on a lot of things


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-12-11
posté January 30, 2014, 16:11:31 | #38

Quote (XjumperX @ 30 January 2014 01:15) *
I never said I wanted it more difficult for non enus, infact I said the opposite

And yes, the whole point to my comment is that there are a lot of instances where enus don't get more loot than a non prospecting class which doesn't make sense.

I understand that there needs to be something done about pp as enus used to be able to drop way more than others but I'd prefer something else rather than a straight cap as this means that enus only drop the same as other classes, not more as they should.

Giving Enu's a higher cap or more loot in other ways makes it more difficult for other classes to obtain the same loot as an Enu. You make it very clear you want Enu's to have more loot than other classes. I highlighted a few examples from your last post.

I gave you plenty of examples of how Enu's gain more loot over time than every other class. Maybe respond to some of those points next time. I don't want to change your mind. I've stated many possible situations that I feel are common enough to justify why i think Enu's get more loot than any other class.


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You're honestly saying that it's faster for an enu to kill low lvl mobs than a cra?


No, I'm saying the difference between a Cra's killing speed and an Enu's is minor. Certainly not enough to justify saying you're better off using another class to farm loot.


Teethless Sharkie * Member Since 2012-03-05
posté January 30, 2014, 16:44:42 | #39
I have 200 pp enu and 150 pp cra (pp set for easy mob fights), I was farming some loot. One char got 1.25-1.5 more tokens than the other. (Guess who got better drops). I started doubting on the pp cap. Maybe there were not so many fights, maybe it's random, but enu got more - pouches are not even an issue since the mobs were 1shoted.
Anyway I agree, enu gets more loot than any other - in theory and especially in practice.


Tofurby on Diet * Member Since 2012-10-15
posté January 30, 2014, 19:04:02 | #40

Quote (XjumperX @ 30 January 2014 01:15) *
I never said I wanted it more difficult for non enus, infact I said the opposite - I suggested enus offering a pp buff to allies.
Like I said about Treasure Tracker in my post, it's going to give more incentives to make an Enutrof .

Enutrofs do not need any more incentives. The entire concept of getting more items than the next guy is already one big, rotten fruit that was painted to make it look like it still looks good and finally placed on top of the Enutrof cake. When people look at the cake, they ignore how beautiful the cake looks, and get completely transfixed and attracted to the poisoned fruit in disguise.




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You're seriously saying that enu blessing helps enus?? You rarely get anything and when you do, you usually just delete because it's junk.
Gynrei is stating that it's part of the extra loot drop. S/he [I apologize for that] wasn't saying that the item gifted to an Enutrof via Enutrof's Blessing would be useful in any way shape or form. Just an extra item.


This post has been edited by demonfoxassassin - January 30, 2014, 19:12:15.