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The use vs abuse
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-05-25
posté September 22, 2013, 22:44:52 | #1
The use vs abuse
Quote
It has come to our attention that a new bug abuse has been discovered on the Dragon Pig.

It seems to be possible to block him in a corner and prevent him from reacting with specific spells such as Cra beacon, Dolls or Barrels, without him turning to Anti-abuse mode.

The use of such mechanic is considered as a breach of or ToS and will lead to proper actions taken against any account caught using them.

Thank you for your understanding.
This is quote from here

The Troyle has said that surrounding Dragon Pig with tools such as beacons or dolls will be considered as abuse.

HOWEVER as long as Cra can place beacons exactly in some spots (same for panda and barrel), the Sadida cannot make dolls "move away from the UB", even if controled the dolls might stay locked, and making Sadida need to control every doll on every turn only kills the whole point of even using dolls there. That's like making whole class unable to fight with its potential, as Sadida is based on its summons. Yes we have Lone Sadida mechanic, but guess what: not all Sadidas level this passive. And it still doesn't change the fact that we cannot use our build as summoner.

As long as i agree that abusing bug is wrong, i have to ask Ankama to fix this issue and next time to make enemy's AI work well when surrounded with summons of players, because it really makes Sadida class not welcome in this UB fight.

The whole of players choosing to be summoner Sadidas is to have access to multiple summons, but using them in UB fight will be considered as abuse of bug.

Now may i ask if there is planned compensation for players with ability to summon of some sort? I mean... i doubt there is but it is clearly bad from Ankama side.

Now what if some players doesn't read forums? And look they are using dolls to attack the Dragon Pig, and it turns out the dragon pig got trapped somehow. Now they will get punished for playing their own class normally!

Seriously Ankama, first was the issue with Voodoll on Black Crow, now is the issue with Dragon Pig. I am afraid to do any UB fights as Sadida player, in fear i will get banned or get some other penalty like all items wiped.

Don't get me wrong, i don't want to abuse bugs. All i want is play normally. And using summons to trap someone is normal gameplay of Sadida class.

Therefore if this bug will be fixed, please do inform us that we are again free to try to trap Dragon Pig or play normally even if Dragon Pig will somehow get trapped anyway.

Still what i don't understand is that Ankama want to make us always take sacrier/feca (or in short future Foggernaut) just to TANK the dmg, and Ankama doesn't want to allow summoner classes to use their summons to TANK. This seems ridiculous. Why you even invented system where players can summon something, if every time you find it as abuse?

Face it: you have failed to revamp Dragon Pig, AGAIN.

Just... fix it... and make it not ever happen again as i don't want to play the game knowing that my normal gamplay might be considered as abuse and then i get penalty.

Note: i haven't abused this spell. In fact i am not even subscribed at this time. And actually the fact why i am not subcribed is also because of this. I am not gonna sub if my class will keep getting punishments for playing.

Why you dont call healing in UB fight as abuse? Or reducing boss resist or throwing boss - why its not abuse either? I mean... hello? It's basic mechanic, right? And so is the ability to summon.

Next time please check UB's AI in such situation and make sure these bosses can still fight. It's not players fault that the boss is not working as it should.

Maybe just close Dragon Pig again until this issue is fixed so that every class will have the same chances/the same amount of times to fight it. This time with no abuse possible please.


Winged Eradicator * Member Since 2010-02-27
posté September 22, 2013, 22:58:59 | #2
Question when you trap the dp is it able to do anything?


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2012-12-15
posté September 22, 2013, 23:02:52 | #3
Mmmmm ranty, but true.


Overweighted Chafer * Member Since 2012-12-21
posté September 22, 2013, 23:20:46 | #4
I always knew Sadida dolls were evil. I'm going to start reporting sadida's on sight for exploiting stuff and stuff.


Squited Arachnee * Member Since 2012-02-22
posté September 22, 2013, 23:24:56 | #5
There's been a lot of uproar about it recently, but in my opinion it's very clear. Players are put in a task to beat DP; they have all the tools the developers gave them and they're free to use them, it's a sandbox game. If they don't use the ways and tricks Ankama wanted them to use it's not their fault and it's Ankama's task is to fix it. DP should be beatable only using the intended strategy. It doesn't matter if the mechanic used to abuse looks fair or not, it's completely irrelevant. Ankama should treat every way of beating DP which is not the intended strategy equally. The explanations and favorizing some tactics is completely absurd. If the seed abuse was used to create a square box for DP where he moves and hits some fake target it makes it a not sanctionable strategy? Because the fooled AI does something? The AI is still fooled and it has completely no justification to excuse such a strategy. It's a phenomen opposite to sensible thinking. Player shouldn't intend to make the boss at least do something against them because the script is invalid.


This post has been edited by FajneCycki - September 22, 2013, 23:41:34.
Tofurby on Diet * Member Since 2012-02-17
posté September 23, 2013, 00:11:44 | #6

Quote (Manyfaces @ 22 September 2013 22:58) *
Question when you trap the dp is it able to do anything?

From what I hear, the Dragon Pig isn't able to actually deal damage on players (Note: He doesn't "skip" a turn, but rather uses buffs on himself and then ends the turn). From what I hear, this sounds not so much of a bug, but rather poor mechanics. In my mind, it seems the dragon pig should be able to be boxed in by summons, at which point he'll just start using some long-range non-LOS moves.

In short, using cra beacons, dolls, barrels, etc. should be considered a legitimate strategy against all UB. It's Ankama's fault for not implementing some attack that damages/destroys obstructions and/or some long-range attacks.

**I emphasize this point because I believe this is what separates "exploiting a mechanic" from bug abuse. If the DP simply automatically skipped his turn, then it would be pretty likely to be a bug. However, since this is just poor mechanics for the boss fight, it's more of an exploit since you're using it to your advantage. Regardless if this exploit is fair or not, players shouldn't be punished for it (i.e. getting banned, stat reduction, etc.). However, in this case, it might be OK to simply delete rewards associated with this.

It is basically Ankama's failure to resolve this, though.


This post has been edited by elgatopucha - September 23, 2013, 00:22:51.
Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2011-02-25
posté September 23, 2013, 00:46:24 | #7
Kiku i think you got it wrong. As far as i know he attacks living dolls. He just seems to ignore doll seeds.


posté September 23, 2013, 01:35:42 | #8
God, the whole point of fighting those kinds of bosses is to win. People summoning and placing machines is going to be a big part of that, unless you do something like giving the boss an ability to eat the summons and heal, or maybe turn the attacked summons into an enemy.

I'd always thought that getting a boss to where it can't attack for a turn is a wonderful and fun challenge, and I actually try to do that as much as possible on all 5 classes I currently play.

If its an abuse from the perspective of Ankama then fine, fix it. But don't come whining and dripping snot all over complaining about how unfair it is that players come up with ideas to let them win and have a shot at your really crappy drop% rates.


Mister Winter Fashion Victim 2012 * Member Since 2012-12-20
posté September 23, 2013, 02:46:55 | #9
As far as I can observe jailing him would be a legitimate strategy if his mechanics to counter it were working properly. But since it abuses his AI to just use Bacon Run and pass, it's something that needs to be worked out before Ankama acknowledges it as such.

I think this situation will be panned out with the next update, and you'll be able to surround him thusly without his AI breaking and it ending up being considered bug abuse.

Yes they messed up the revamp. What we hope is that they don't miss any details whenever they do change Dragon Pig to rectify this.

• Mango


Vamp'emo * Member Since 2006-10-23
posté September 23, 2013, 05:35:47 | #10
The problem with DP is that there is only one legit way to win. It's like a riddle you have to solve and if you don't get the answer right yet you still win you can get sanctioned. It's not our fault that Grou didn't consider multiple answers for his riddle.


Ugly Gobball * Member Since 2013-05-29
posté September 23, 2013, 05:40:02 | #11
God forbid we actually form our own strategies in this supposed sandbox game.


Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2009-04-30
posté September 23, 2013, 05:52:39 | #12
Why does there have to be a set formula to beat a UB...?  


Vamp'emo * Member Since 2006-10-23
posté September 23, 2013, 05:57:31 | #13
Because that's the way DP was designed. :\


The Sinister Six * Member Since 2012-02-09
posté September 23, 2013, 06:15:00 | #14
Honestly, I still think it's because we're doing Dpig wrong in the first place.

We aren't even using the super secret mechanic so they're kinda annoyed.

(Do some combos, peeps! Maybe you have to mimic the element of his moves or something!)


posté September 23, 2013, 06:18:18 | #15
If there's only one way to beat him, that really sucks. That takes out a lot of the fun, once you've got it figured out.

Some folks like alternative play, and I don't think it's fair to keep telling them they're going to be sanctioned for beating it outside of the approved formula.

Ankama should just fix it if they don't like it and leave the players be.


Vamp'emo * Member Since 2006-10-23
posté September 23, 2013, 06:37:13 | #16
It seems like any other way will break his AI, so I guess we need to figure out the legit strategy.


Dokushuuuuu * Member Since 2012-02-19
posté September 23, 2013, 06:56:04 | #17
im just going to throw this out there.... but maybe just maybe the legit strat is like throwing enis at him till he is so tired we can come in and get him while he is asleep!


Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2009-04-30
posté September 23, 2013, 06:57:54 | #18

Quote (Asthis @ 23 September 2013 05:57) *
Because that's the way DP was designed. :\
Yes, but what's their motive for designing it that way? I don't recall Dofus Dungeon bosses having issues like this but I could be mistaken.

And before you say this isn't Dofus, I know that. But it is a game set in the same mythology and does have similar mechanics, so things can filter through.


Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2012-01-05
posté September 23, 2013, 07:56:48 | #19

Quote (Asthis @ 23 September 2013 05:57) *
Because that's the way DP was designed. :\


"Designed" Yeah...no. There is nothing designed about this and what is worse is the fact that their so called design always leaves players in the dark. So no wonder all kinds of "wrong" strategies are being used.

What always baffles me most is how they still screw up even the map design. God damnit Ankama people love to abuse sketchy border tiles. Just make it a rectangle with the debuff tiles in every single spot. Many problems solved already...


Vamp'emo * Member Since 2006-10-23
posté September 23, 2013, 08:31:32 | #20

Quote (AshalindWolf @ 23 September 2013 06:57) *

Quote (Asthis @ 23 September 2013 05:57) *
Because that's the way DP was designed. :\
Yes, but what's their motive for designing it that way? I don't recall Dofus Dungeon bosses having issues like this but I could be mistaken.

And before you say this isn't Dofus, I know that. But it is a game set in the same mythology and does have similar mechanics, so things can filter through.

I guess Grou thinks he is clever by designing a UB with only one strategy? I don't know. I don't think he does mechanics for Dofus.