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Dragon pig Strategy and Reflections
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2012-01-26
posté September 25, 2013, 22:26:50 | #41

Quote (Beezle @ 25 September 2013 21:34) *

Quote (HateSpawn @ 25 September 2013 20:47) *
This is the last eniripsa/heal resist related comment I'm going to post on this.
Moderating: Glad he realized it was going a lil off topic, but i hope he helped explain how eni heals works. which is a good thing to know about DP.

If you plan on bringing an Eni to DP carry it after the tank has DP focus it.
Making DP focus the tank isnt. Really all that worth it... Personally thats what I've found.


Short Strich * Member Since 2012-02-29
posté September 26, 2013, 06:22:37 | #42
Kinda upset that this is another UB where marks are useless to be honest. I suppose I should save that for the eni forums, however.


Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2012-03-01
posté September 26, 2013, 07:20:55 | #43
Must be nice having to do UBs...


Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2013-08-17
posté September 26, 2013, 07:42:01 | #44

Quote (Synnic @ 26 September 2013 07:20) *
Must be nice having to do UBs...
It is. if you dont run UBs find people to run it with or get the lvl to run them. This thread is for people who are either trying to down DP or discover the intended strat for DP. If you arent going to post anything related to DP, please refrain from posting on this thread.


Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2012-03-01
posté September 26, 2013, 15:01:21 | #45

Quote (Beezle @ 26 September 2013 07:42) *

Quote (Synnic @ 26 September 2013 07:20) *
Must be nice having to do UBs...
It is. if you dont run UBs find people to run it with or get the lvl to run them. This thread is for people who are either trying to down DP or discover the intended strat for DP. If you arent going to post anything related to DP, please refrain from posting on this thread.
The levels of sarcasm of this post are so high they flew right over you, bee.

I have a ton of information I've gathered about Dragon Pig that I honestly don't want to share, especially with exploiters running rampent I want to let them be sanctioned, not give them a way to down it legitimately. When the sanctions come out, then I will ask the people who gave me the information (Namely Mango) if he cares if I post it, obviously giving him credit.


This post has been edited by Seijai - September 26, 2013, 15:10:42.
Reason for edit : Wrong account.
Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2013-08-17
posté September 26, 2013, 20:49:12 | #46

Quote (Seijai @ 26 September 2013 15:01) *

Quote (Beezle @ 26 September 2013 07:42) *

Quote (Synnic @ 26 September 2013 07:20) *
Must be nice having to do UBs...
It is. if you dont run UBs find people to run it with or get the lvl to run them. This thread is for people who are either trying to down DP or discover the intended strat for DP. If you arent going to post anything related to DP, please refrain from posting on this thread.
The levels of sarcasm of this post are so high they flew right over you, bee.

I have a ton of information I've gathered about Dragon Pig that I honestly don't want to share, especially with exploiters running rampent I want to let them be sanctioned, not give them a way to down it legitimately. When the sanctions come out, then I will ask the people who gave me the information (Namely Mango) if he cares if I post it, obviously giving him credit.
Ahh all those that know me, know i dont get sarcasm x]. Well i understand why you wouldnt share the info. I only shared the info that i discovered, and not those that i was told (and asked not to share.) till it is or will be shared here. As for the exploiters regardless of wether they get the legit strat or not, they will most likely still get sanctioned. Either way talking ( well reading) about how to defeat a boss is very different than seeing or experiencing it. And Again, if you are not going to share anything DP ( i.e mechanic, AI , etc) dont post i'd like to keep this thread focused on the topic :] 


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2012-01-26
posté September 26, 2013, 21:07:46 | #47

Quote (Beezle @ 26 September 2013 20:49) *

Quote (Seijai @ 26 September 2013 15:01) *

Quote (Beezle @ 26 September 2013 07:42) *
It is. if you dont run UBs find people to run it with or get the lvl to run them. This thread is for people who are either trying to down DP or discover the intended strat for DP. If you arent going to post anything related to DP, please refrain from posting on this thread.
The levels of sarcasm of this post are so high they flew right over you, bee.

I have a ton of information I've gathered about Dragon Pig that I honestly don't want to share, especially with exploiters running rampent I want to let them be sanctioned, not give them a way to down it legitimately. When the sanctions come out, then I will ask the people who gave me the information (Namely Mango) if he cares if I post it, obviously giving him credit.
Ahh all those that know me, know i dont get sarcasm x]. Well i understand why you wouldnt share the info. I only shared the info that i discovered, and not those that i was told (and asked not to share.) till it is or will be shared here. As for the exploiters regardless of wether they get the legit strat or not, they will most likely still get sanctioned. Either way talking ( well reading) about how to defeat a boss is very different than seeing or experiencing it. And Again, if you are not going to share anything DP ( i.e mechanic, AI , etc) dont post i'd like to keep this thread focused on the topic :]
I guess it wouldn't be much of a stretch for me to guess that it's not clear that I'm Seijai.


The Sinister Six * Member Since 2012-02-09
posté September 26, 2013, 22:55:52 | #48
Why do you guys even care so much about giving such amazing secrets out if you're afraid of exploiters?

The exploiters almost always get punished these days.


Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2013-08-17
posté September 27, 2013, 01:07:23 | #49

Quote (axemangx @ 26 September 2013 22:55) *
Why do you guys even care so much about giving such amazing secrets out if you're afraid of exploiters?

The exploiters almost always get punished these days.
Ok, this is what i was trying to avoid. Now people are just leaving random comments. First, im not afraid of exploiters they can use this info however they like. They can use exploit and get sanctioned or use this info and make a legit strat. In a way this is helping them. it probably guides them away from the exploits. About withholding info ( or secrets ). Ff a person discovers something but doesn't want the masses to know, it your duty as a friend /guild mate/acquaintance to keep that said info to yourself. Unless that person later on says its ok to share, or someone else who discovered the same secret says something about it.

Now that i've answer your question( which was prob a rhetorical question). I would like to ask you and anyone else who want to talk about anything thats potentially off topic to do so on another thread.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DP Belligerence stacks


Most likely going to run DP tomorrow. Going to do the endurance strat (fck UFS for now), where DP only hits my tank, heal tank, and let heal resist decided whether ill win or not.

Theory:

Here's how i thought belligerence could stack. Throughout Stage 1. if you have an osa, shiedl tank with gob gob and for about 50 turns( if done right it could take 10-20 mins). At that point DPs Ultimate figter will be giving everyone 100 Belligerence on DPs turn. The tank shouldnt have more than 10 % heal resist if shielded properly by osa. If you want you can make it so get UF to 150. From this point on drop shields, do dmg, get frenzied, do dmg then a lil b4 phase three stack UFS.

By stage 3 DP will be at 200 UF, so it will give 200 Belligerence to everyone on the field.

Lets say everyone had 0 ( except for tank who will have 1 more than everyone) in belligerence

On DPs turn everyone gets 200 belligerence:
Unlocks two special moves that drop belligerence by 50 and 100. dunnof if the 3rd is the one that removes 150, but im assuming it is.

So he used both moves, which will drop the belligerence everyone has to 50. If he doesnt hit anyone else with a special move everyones belligerence will be at 50( except tank who will have 51).

Pretty much it will go like this

Belligerence------------increase----------------------Drop
0---------------------------- 200 ---------------------------150
50---------------------------200----------------------------150
100-------------------------200-----------------------------300
0-----------------------------200-----------------------------150

And it will repeat. if the third move doesnt remove belligerence:

Belligerence------------increase----------------------Drop
0---------------------------- 200 ---------------------------150
50---------------------------200----------------------------150
100-------------------------200-----------------------------150
150-------------------------200-----------------------------150
200-------------------------200-----------------------------300(assuming that he does all 3 special moves on tank)
100-------------------------200-----------------------------150

Reason from dropping 300, i was only given 4 belligerence drop rates, which means he either has 4 special moves or 5 where one doesn't drop belligerence.

Base on the speculations that he can only use the 4th move once on tank and not use the 1 and 2nd or vice versa

Belligerence------------increase----------------------Drop
0---------------------------- 200 ---------------------------150 Special move 1 and 2 ( 50 +100)
50---------------------------200----------------------------150
100-------------------------200-----------------------------150
150-------------------------200-----------------------------150
200-------------------------200-----------------------------150( move 4)
250-------------------------200-----------------------------150( move 4)
300-------------------------200-----------------------------250( last move Power presentation, i believe)
250-------------------------200-----------------------------150(move 4) from this point its it will rince and repeat)
300-------------------------200------------------------------250

Pretty much everyone will have 250 -300 +( belligerence from using spells of course) which is the same as 30 UFS. Apparently power presentation jumps your straight to 200 UFS if you survive, but then someone mentioned disembodiment if you get hit by it. either way there's in this last belligerence stack chart, You have every other turn to heal, or decide who will have the most belligerence. To get hit/ buffed by DP.

How would this work with DPT? you could leave them behind and let tank take all the hits, or you could move them within 7 mp of DP. Why 7 ? IF and ONLY if you survive whatever move he chooses to use. You will get UFS( if it doubles like it did during my run you will have either 60 or 120 UFS), but you dont want to get locked. So leaving him with 1 mp will most likely make it move one. If everyone has max belligerence he should not feel the need to TP. the key will just be to get DP back to tank( sacrieur with attraction would be nice)

Dragon pig AI when belligerence is at 500 ( theory)

1. hit closest person (tank)
2. checks if it get hit someone else:
a) If not follows through with strongest special move.
b) one person is in hitting distance. uses a few special moves( 1 and 2) goes to next person does special move, checks for another person( if no one there does strongest special move ); if someone there does another two speical moves ( 1 and 2 ), then moves to the next target.
3. Should be out of AP if he hit one or two other people other than tank. Has one MP left and move towards the next target.
4. who can i TP too? euhm they all have the same belligerence. [ Note: this could be the random facotor of DP] ill randomly TP, or ill just chill here, I'm already in the middle of the action.

If set up is the way I imagine it. sacrieur can just attract him back.

All you have to do is remember to let the tank have the high belligerence every other cool/healing turn.


Theory over. Is this even possible ? Dunno. not going to waste this week trying to figure it out. well not till i can form a second DP team. Going for the safe ( and long) strat for now


Mister Winter Fashion Victim 2012 * Member Since 2012-12-20
posté September 27, 2013, 03:39:15 | #50
200 UF dang. Level 64 UF took us three hours. Even our current runs at level 30 to 40 UF takes us about an hour and a half.

That is one long encounter mate.

• Mango


Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2013-08-17
posté September 27, 2013, 08:16:51 | #51
I was afraid someone wouldn't understand a thing i said. I'm assuming you guys get set up then start removing shield and dropping his hp. But if you spend 10- 20 mins passing your turns, while having tank attract DP and a support class shielding tank.You should be able to get UF up there real fast. With the proper shields, tank shouldn't lose much hp especially if sacrieur is tank. Coag would def help.

The time lost from passing your turns should be rewarded with a stable increase in UFS. If someone masters how to stack UFS to 200 it would lead to a nice and easy solution to possibly down DP during phase 3. So, in phase 2, you need to get 7 frenzied to do dmg to DP. The closer you get him to 14 the more his final resist drops(?). if( and only IF) 14 frenzied makes DP have 0 final resist for that turn. Then DP is pretty much done for.

Allow me to explain. Say you have a panda that has been dropping resist. DP has 300res (correct me if i'm wrong) resist in all elements. With max dizzy DP has 200 Resist all. Assuming your DPT has 400 % elemental dmg + 200%( from UFS) puts you at 600. If you have 500 out of fight, it puts you at 700. Don't forget the 15 crits and + 4 ap.

If you compare.. 600- 700% dmg vs 200 % resist. Look pretty good especially if final resist is down. Give these odds to a rogue ( using my rogue as an example) 670 % vs 71 % dmg( 71 because of piercing shot- resist), with a rogue equipped with CHD gear or backstab gear. If DP is lined up for Fusi. It would be very easy to drop atleast 2000 HP( not taking back stab and crits into consideration). If you can get an additional DPT to get the buff on that same turn... what else is there to say. If DPT is osa( air for example) 14 ap from buff, 2 ap bwork, crit synergy , triple Whip, scaraleaf. Fells like another 2000 hp worth of DMG.

So before entering phase 3 you get DP to 14 frenzied drop that final resist than rock his world.

Only condition, is that you have to survive DP under frenzied lvl 14.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2012-01-26
posté September 27, 2013, 11:32:33 | #52
Not to be rude, but

aren't you getting ahead of yourself?

You haven't even seen P3, much less know what DP is capable of in that phase.

moreover, you sort of roflfucked the belligerence based moves.

There and Back - 100 Belligerence, 2 AP cost. Simply earth damage. In phase two, it adds a second hit (seen in the teaser video). Removes 50 belligerence.

Spatter - 200 Belligerence, 2 AP cost. Air attack with a knockback, also getting more powerful in phase two. Removes 100 Belligerence.

Chop Stewy - 300 Belligerence, 3 AP cost. Again, another air attack. I didn't manage to proc this in phase two, he was using There and back maybe twice a turn. This removes 150 Belligerence.

Mirror Images - 400 Belligerence, X AP cost. Attacks with multiple elements, I really don't understand much of this spell. I've seen it hit high and low, and remove different belligerence. To summarize it, imagine a question mark.

Power Presentation - 500 Belligerence, X AP cost. Also attacks with multiple elements. Basically, if this hits you, you are done. Removes 200-250 Belligerence (I assume 250 going off the pattern).

Once you figure out how to survive Frenzied Sequence's violent side for all of phase two, thats when you should be considering phase three.


Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2013-08-17
posté September 27, 2013, 17:53:15 | #53
I don't think i'm getting ahead of myself. Ive said alot of things so its easy to misunderstand what i was saying.

Yes i do not know how hard he hits, but then again all i've done is speculate. Plus i've been just focusing on the dmg aspect of it.

If you re-read the aim is to get every player to 500 belligerence.The turn before everyone gets 500 belligerence you need to give DP targets to hit other than the tank. You give him ( or anyone targets) he will try to do more dmg all around.

Speculations: Best case scenario he would
1. first use 'there and back' or 'spatter' on tank ( drop belligerence by 150 removing his ability to use power presentations and mirror images )
2. move to the next target ( DPT) use 'there and back' or 'spatter' (drop another 150).
3. mvoe to the next target ( DPT or healer) use 'there and back' or 'spatter')

that's a total of 450 belligerence drops, Leaving the whole team with 50 belligerence. Following the lil chart i did earlier it would take about 3-5 turns to get back to 500 belligerence. Enough time to heal both dpts and tank. Lets not forget that the tanks resist constantly increase as belligerence/UFS increases.

If the belligerence chart i made is in anyway accurate everyone will have around 300 belligerence, Before DP makes them jump to 500. Which means everyone will start their turn with UFS at lvl 30.From what i know getting hit my a special move double UFS. If what you said about DP using there an back twice. that will leave whoever gets hit twice with 120 UFS.. Now you can imagine the dmg boost from that. Its pretty nice imo.

Now in phase 2 its possible to drop DP final resist as close as possible to 0 ( dont know if it is 0 at lvl 14). With a lil bit of thinking you can take advantage of that to Do massive dmg. 6000 hp gets him to phase 3 right? so get DP to 6100 get him to 14 frenzied. Have whoever get hit and buff, praying that they survive. the dmg turn if you have a osa, rogue with nice dmg boots and DP resist drops, both can potentially deal 4000 hp ( if final resist drops to 0). having to deal with 2000 hp on the second phase is way better than 6000.

if this is still not clear, ill act it out.
" oh look i have 300 belligerence, ill get hit by dp, get a dmg, and crits boots, if i survive." * get hit and lives*
" Well we dealt some pretty nice dmg, now i think ill stay back and let another DPT get the buff or get ready for seconds in the next 3 turns, till then i need some heals".

Well this is best way i could explain this x]. I might have to make a chart based on the belligerence drop you just provided.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2012-01-26
posté September 27, 2013, 21:10:42 | #54
I really don't think you understand the danger of 500 Belligerence.

At that point, there and back won't even be an option, really.

Frenzied Sequence 2, Power Presentation, Mirror Images, and Chop Stewy are all FAR superior to there and back. If he did a full turn of Spatters and There and Backs, with everyone at 500 belligerence, I would throw up in relief.

eh, I can't convince you so I won't try. Have fun, good luck.


Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2013-08-17
posté September 27, 2013, 22:01:16 | #55
Lol,remember when starting your turn next to Magmog was a no-no? Getting 500 belligerence feels like that.

Btw one of DP's achievements is to have 500 Belligerence at some point in the fight. Which means its possible to get 500 belligerence and still have that person finish the fight.

I still think if you don't feed DP with targets during that point that he will use Power presentation and etc. Well ill just test the attack combo this week with summons.


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2011-02-25
posté September 27, 2013, 22:09:24 | #56
Starting next to Magmog is still bad if you dont cool him. Ofc it is possible to survive 500 Belligerence, but that will still leave you in a bad position to fight him.

And about achievements, those want you to kill those new dungeon bosses first too, i want to see how you're gonna manage that right now. Just because it's an achievement doesnt mean you can do it right away. Eventually? yes. but right now? no.

It's great that youre trying to come up with a strat here in public, but i think you're overrating UFS a bit


Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2013-08-17
posté September 28, 2013, 03:49:46 | #57
Standing next to Magmog is bad, but now its like a casual thing when you understand the whole cooling system.

It's possible that im overrating UFS, but its also possible that some are not seeing it for what its worth.

Making an assumption here. the strat people are using to down it, mostly involves the tank getting hit, stacking a crazy amount of heal res, while the dpt deal minimum dmg. Thats pretty much how my runs go. I don't need to heal my dpt or anyone other than tank.

What my runs come down to is how well and how long my tank can stand while my dpt try to down him. my DPTs dont get hit unless i forget to move them when DP gets his MP bonus. If the key for them to hit harder to is get hit, then i can risk making them take dmg for one turn. if they don't die its a quick and easy heal because they don't have heal resist.

I know the mechanics are different but the buff are similar, but look at the Shhhudoku. To get the buff you have to follow mechanic, which i feel the the same for DP. If i can get a dmg buff that allows my dpt to deal better dmg, If they are able to deal better dmg it reduces the time the DPT has to tank.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2012-01-26
posté September 28, 2013, 06:36:12 | #58

Quote (Beezle @ 28 September 2013 03:49) *
Standing next to Magmog is bad, but now its like a casual thing when you understand the whole cooling system.

It's possible that im overrating UFS, but its also possible that some are not seeing it for what its worth.

Making an assumption here. the strat people are using to down it, mostly involves the tank getting hit, stacking a crazy amount of heal res, while the dpt deal minimum dmg. Thats pretty much how my runs go. I don't need to heal my dpt or anyone other than tank.

What my runs come down to is how well and how long my tank can stand while my dpt try to down him. my DPTs dont get hit unless i forget to move them when DP gets his MP bonus. If the key for them to hit harder to is get hit, then i can risk making them take dmg for one turn. if they don't die its a quick and easy heal because they don't have heal resist.

I know the mechanics are different but the buff are similar, but look at the Shhhudoku. To get the buff you have to follow mechanic, which i feel the the same for DP. If i can get a dmg buff that allows my dpt to deal better dmg, If they are able to deal better dmg it reduces the time the DPT has to tank.
1) I bet you can't make a list of people outside of elysium and REMOVED who legit kill it
2) Elysium doesn't do that, to my understanding.
3) DPT not getting hit is very counter intuitive...
4) Shhhudoku - level 120
Dragon Pig - level 720

.-.


This post has been edited by HateSpawn - September 28, 2013, 06:47:20.
Reason for edit : under suspicion
Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2013-08-17
posté September 28, 2013, 07:55:27 | #59
Don't get the third point, prob cause im sleepy. its normal for the DPTs to not get hit because you need to alive to kill DP. But there's a mechanic that gives your DPT a chance to hit harder. I don't see why your dpts wouldn't want to get it.

The level between those two doesn't really matter. I'm just comparing the buffs. The reason i use shhhudoku is because the risk to get the buff and the buff stats ( don't remember how much you get from shhhudoku's) are similar. To get shhhudoku's buff you have to end your turn on the blue tiles ( after doing so with the other tiles) during that turn you get hit. Getting hit on that turn is the risk you have to take the get the buff. For DP to get UFS above 50, you have to get hit by one of DPs special moves. The connection between both buffs, you got to get hit to get it.

Sounds good on paper but its hard to comprehend without visual aid. Obviously I already got the scenario thought out for the classes i have in my team. I know i can cruise my way through phase 1 and 2. Phase 3 will def be about my tank heal resist at the end of the fight and whether the TP rules change. Only solutions to counter the stack of heal resist, would be to either suffer no dmg or shorten the length of the fight. To shorten the lengths of the you either end fight or deal the max amount of dmg end it faster.

Running it tomorrow, wish me luck. and i hope you guys figure it out, too.


Squited Arachnee * Member Since 2012-02-22
posté September 28, 2013, 09:53:38 | #60
Beezle, your reasoning about DP is absolutely correct; but theory needs an adequate practical experience. Getting to the third stage without a proper tactic is impossible. I would advise you to not listen to Hate, his posts are mainly aimed to build autosatisfaction, not to actually bring something to the thread. There's plenty of "legit" strategies allowing to beat DP; AI is very schematic and predictable, you can prevent him from teleporting in several ways, or make him teleport where you want him to be if you use the Beligerence wisely. It makes the encounter easier but it's just playing with the AI, not even close to the real strategy. You can find and use such a strategy but it's defeating the purpose of this thread. So far only groups from Aerafal used the legitimate strategy. As an incentive - there's a very interesting hidden ability connected to having UFS at high level and it's directly a part of the intended strategy. Wish you best observations on your run.