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Thoughts on Nation Bonuses

By SpecAce - MEMBER (+) - 2013-07-01 04:50
Ankama made it so that each nation has a stronger bonus in a single element. This combined with the recent addition of the ability to change nations, has undermined the spirit of the game in my opinion. There's little to no incentive to stay in nation that that doesn't favor your element. As of right now i play mostly air characters and my home nation is Amakna which has only 5% air bonus. I don't care that much about the bonus so i stay there, but have friends that leave to other nations to get the extra 15% damage sad . I would like to know peoples thoughts on whether nation bonuses as they are right now are a positive or negative thing for Wakfu.
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Personally, I don't like not having anything from the nation (Ecologists, get your shit together) but it's not bad enough for me to switch to scummy brakmar.

Though for me, damage doesnt matter.
It kinda undermines your freedom to choose whatever nation you want. Because you still can choose any nation, but you then reduce your damage potential by 15% wich isn't a lot, but it does make a difference.

Now I do like how different nations give different bonuses to craft xp. That makes sense because each nation has its own specialty, and it doesn't give you any bonus in a fight. Take the good with the bad I guess, after all at high levels 15% damage isn't really that much.
Who cares about the damage? Go for the nation that has a prospecting bonus. In fact, one nation probably has both prospecting bonusses, so just go for that one.

Also 15% is astonishingly little regardless of what your level is. If your base damage is 3, 15% of that is still... 3. And by the time it's 30 you'll have 300-400% damage anyway, so... yeah, prospecting. Or national pride.
My only reason to choose nation = which nation I love the most, I just pick that one!
My thought is that the damage bonus is insignificant and everyone is going ape shit about it without even doing some simple math first.
News flash everyone. 15% damage is incredibly significant. If you do 100 base a turn thats 15 extra damage a turn and its just multiplicative for the rest of the fight. whether you have 100% damage or 300% the significance is the same. Maka cards and zeorus blade are only seperated by 10% damage and people will go to much further ends to get a zeorus over the cards.

That being said I agree it does make it pointless to devote to a nation. The problem is not the bonuses however. The problem is there is nothing to do involving your nation. Wars yield no reward other than some crappy island bonuses and thats all there is involving nations. You should be able to conquer territories and all bonuses should be the same. Maybe to get a certain element bonus in one nation you have to be in a very narrow range of equilibrium, idk.
I love Amakna but i changed my main (eni) to Sufokia, my healing should be the best and i cant have people dieing cause of my national pride biggrin 
My thoughts unless your trying to squeeze out every last bit out of your build a 15% to me is nothing... Im an outlaw anyway so my bonuses are only from my guild.
The ability to change nations didn't undermine the spirit of the game; it undermined patriotic nationalism that some people seem to adopt quite vigorously. Damage does matter; obsolete ancient ideals don't.
IYesWayI|2013-07-01 10:13:43News flash everyone. 15% damage is incredibly significant.
The spells that actually deal 100 base damage also cost alot of ap and have a limit of one use per turn so the most you will get out of your entire turn is 20-25 damage when you can probably do about 1k damage at max level. Even at mid level most classes can do 300-400 damage and at that point their base damage is lower than at max level so 15% is even more insignificant. It's not just insignificant, it's laughable really.

Don't get me wrong, i am all for min-maxing and being as optimal as possible with your character and i respect that more than people would know but seeing how areas of the game get blocked because of protected mobs in order to maintain this joke of a stat just makes me want to bring out a ballista and aim for the kidneys :p
IYesWayI|2013-07-01 10:13:43News flash everyone. 15% damage is incredibly significant.

It is significant.

To everyone saying it isn't significant... I guess that 10 dmg on zerous is nothing too. Why use Bloodthirsty offhand. Why use blah blah blah. It all adds up.

The nation bonuses are one of the biggest in slot increases to your damage you can get.
Gynrei|2013-07-01 16:23:06Why use Bloodthirsty offhand. Why use blah blah blah. It all adds up.
The difference between having gear and having the nation bonus is that gear gives more bonuses than just some damage and you don't have to forbid players from killing any monster in several areas per nation in order to aquire it.
The Damage increase doesn't seem significant to many until you're up against a high resist mob, usually the case when it comes to UBs.

Suppose you have 450% damage and suppose a target has 450% resist. If you do 150 base damage per turn from spells, your total damage to the target would be 150.

Now suppose you have 465% damage against the same 450% resist target. If you do 150 base damage per turn from spells, your total damage to the target would be 172-173.

Notice that in this scenario the difference in total damage to the target is the damage increase from just 15% increased elemental damage. Obviously this example was doctored up, but you will run into similar situations against higher level mobs. This is why %damage is extremely important when doing UB encounters. There's obviously a cutoff as to when %damage increases wont perform as well as CH increase, but when it comes to UBs and their high resists I very much doubt we'll be reaching that cutoff anytime soon.
Significant or not, my opinion on this is that all nations should have the same damage potential because having players pick a nation they like over damage (Or encouraging them to) kinda sucks, should pick a nation you like for what it is and not its bonuses imo.

Azael mentioned something about the goverment paying to maximize all other bonuses, but this wasn't implemented eventually (?). Hope we can get something like that.
This last post by Intrade is extremely important and everyone that underestimates small changes in damage percentage values should read this thoroughly.

As soon as enemies start to even out your damage mastery with their resistances you will be happy about every single percent, because it makes a huge difference in final damage.
Let me just ask you a question. Will that 20 damage per character actually be the deciding factor of the fight? If the answer is no, which it most definately is then why would you lock legitimate leveling areas and cheat people that expected to have full access to all the content that they paid for with real money? I am just baffled that some people think this is okay.
I personally don't like that you have to choose your nation based on your element. It creates problems with guilds that have chosen a nation and then want to group with party members during war time. It's actually a copout in trying to establish more national diversity, and while I wouldn't mind so much if it was more balanced, it's an extreme difference imho and it does matter especially as you face high resist monsters. I can see maybe giving 15 percent to all damages per nation and letting each one get a bonus of 5 percent in their favored element, but I don't think the current system works well. To create a balanced party you know need to have almost all nations involved and that's ridiculous if nations can go to war with each other. When you're minmaxing, it's that last 100 damage that matters the most that gets you over the boss's resist and this 15 and the guild bonus and the best gear and runes are what push you into that level.
CloudyMind|2013-07-01 17:02:00Let me just ask you a question. Will that 20 damage per character actually be the deciding factor of the fight? If the answer is no, which it most definately is...

I think you missed the point o.o
Intrade|2013-07-01 17:10:37I think you missed the point o.o

Did i or did you miss it instead? If you can win the UB fight anyway then why is the damage snignificant at all? Just because you like seeing bigger numbers or because you want to maybe win the fight one turn earlier... and for that we have 4-5 areas on lockdown? Like i said, i am all about min-maxing your stats but not when it's in expense of other player's gaming experience.

Heck, people now beat UBs with the full set that said UB drops and normally you are supposed to be able to beat the boss with a weaker set and without the nation bonus. That's how the fight was designed. If it couldn't be done then no one would have ever beaten the UB in the first place.

As an example, just imagine if you are level 110 and quit and when you come back later the governors declare that you can't kill any of the mobs at freegost because a 5% bonus from that area will be lost and the high level players will be displeased because even though they can beat all the new UBs anyway they still want to do just a tad more damage for some reason. I bet you would be a bit annoyed to say the least.
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