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TommyTrouble, Your misson if you choose to accept it.

By HakazabaJub 2013-05-08 23:59
Devtracker
TommyTrouble, you have proven yourself invaluable to this community for your efforts to fix the Bum Sack, and have gained recognition from Ankama themselves.

I would like to thank you on behalf of all of us.

Clearly, you have a great and mystical power to somehow communicate the message of us mear mortals to the great Ankama.

With great power comes great responsibility and i am pleased to see you have taken it upon yourself to inform them of the completely lacking translations for the new content which is a great quest indeed!

I would like to bring another bug to your attention, a bug that has plagued us for as long as i can remember. Heals do not take general damage or critical damage bonuses into account in their calculation!, oh the pain this bug has caused many a hybrid Enripsa and now many hybrid Ecaflip, Masqraider and Saddida as well.

I implore you, please use your great gift to aid in the clensing of this great injustice!
First Ankama intervention
I just got confirmation that yes, this is an intended feature.

The reason is that Heals already have their own dedicated bonus, and cumulating this bonus with the “damage all” bonus would just make it too strong.

Also, heals do not currently take resists into account, whereas damages do. Damage bonuses are calculated with this in mind, which makes inadequate for heals.
See message in context
Reactions 71
It's not a bug, its a feature.

No really, I'm pretty sure its deliberate that general damage bonuses are not applied to heals. I've no idea about crit damage bonuses though.
What makes you think that?
It makes a massive amount of gear unusable for healers and hybrid healers unviable.
I think everyone just gave up from Ankamas silence.
the problem with not applying general dmg bonus to heals is it makes rolling an effective hybrid build with water as one of the branches laughable. It also makes a lot of gear near useless for water enis because all they have is heal spells.

They either need to fix this or fix water enis. Nerf heal or whatever but the class/branch is boring enough already without having to ignore nice gear because it has general dmg instead of water.
HakazabaJub|2013-05-09 00:39:42What makes you think that?
It makes a massive amount of gear unusable for healers and hybrid healers unviable.
I think everyone just gave up from Ankamas silence.

Because as far as i remember a French Dev or CCM said so months ago. (dont ask me for a link, its long lost)
Also as an evidence that this is intended are the support spells: Lone Sadida and Feline Leap. Both granting +general damage and +heals

Hybrid chars are getting alot dual element gears lately, so you dont have to rely on +general damage too much now.
I enjoyed the OP. well done.

I'm not sure what Ankama dislikes about general dmg affecting heals. Water/??? gear is the same thing but more limited in selection.

While you're at it Ankama, make Feca's Fire dmg% affect glyph dmg. I might actually play a fire feca the way it was intended.
HakazabaJub|2013-05-09 00:39:42What makes you think that?
It makes a massive amount of gear unusable for healers and hybrid healers unviable.
I think everyone just gave up from Ankamas silence.

When you're a Dev trying to make a balanced game, you assign a certain amount of 'points' to a piece of gear. Every 'buff' that you put on that gear removes some of the points. AP, MP, Range costs far more points on a piece of gear than say, dodge. This would seem to be general assumed knowledge amongst most players, however, what may not be evident is that stats that provide functionality to multiple branches have a higher weighting than a single element buff. When considering whether healers should receive the buff from general damage, there are three stats to take into consideration.

1) General Damage Buffs, 2) Water Damage Buffs, 3) Heals Buffs

The dedicated healing line seems to be water, so having water damage buff your healing spells seems to be an easier fix than making healer branchers read 'healing' instead. (Especially given the tendency towards a split role displayed in the Sadida, Ecaflip and Masq.)

When it comes to a consideration of General Damage buffing heals though, you are discounting that healers already have a general buff that will effect their healing no matter what element it is. Heal increase exists on a great many pieces of gear and serves for a healer the same way general damage serves for a damage dealer.

Making an effective heals/DD hybrid is perhaps the holy grail of soloing (especially if you can combine high resists) and to make such dual wields viable would be a headache for balancing for Ankama.

In conclusion, if you want to have general damage buff heals, you'll need to lobby Ankama to remove the healing stat from the armour.

(Also, while it may seem greedy and self serving, can I just plug my idea for making the water branch for Xelors a healing branch, rather than the raid redundant AP stealing, with the time mages 'rolling back' damage on the player, as opposed to healing it?)
Chrolo|2013-05-09 01:00:55
HakazabaJub|2013-05-09 00:39:42What makes you think that?
It makes a massive amount of gear unusable for healers and hybrid healers unviable.
I think everyone just gave up from Ankamas silence.

Because as far as i remember a French Dev or CCM said so months ago. (dont ask me for a link, its long lost)
Also as an evidence that this is intended are the support spells: Lone Sadida and Feline Leap. Both granting +general damage and +heals

Hybrid chars are getting alot dual element gears lately, so you dont have to rely on +general damage too much now.
To me that just shows how lazy they are, they know about the bug and instead of fixing it they just add heals to general damage stuff. Heck they could just add +heals to all of the general damage stuff in the game if you think that is a good solution.

Also forlinj, +heals is far rarer than you are implying on non water sets, in fact i cant think of any non water sets that have it, especially ones with general damage.

And we can already make a perfect heals/dd hybrid so long as its only water, your point is moot.
Gynrei|2013-05-09 01:04:59
While you're at it Ankama, make Feca's Fire dmg% affect glyph dmg. I might actually play a fire feca the way it was intended.
Yes, please. My main is just that, and I'm very disappointed that not only does fire damage% not affect it, but mechanical damage doesn't either. :c
MoonBears101|2013-05-09 01:17:31
Gynrei|2013-05-09 01:04:59
While you're at it Ankama, make Feca's Fire dmg% affect glyph dmg. I might actually play a fire feca the way it was intended.
Yes, please. My main is just that, and I'm very disappointed that not only does fire damage% not affect it, but mechanical damage doesn't either. :c
Oh great TommyTrouble, please hear these mortals pleas!
MoonBears101|2013-05-09 01:17:31
Gynrei|2013-05-09 01:04:59
While you're at it Ankama, make Feca's Fire dmg% affect glyph dmg. I might actually play a fire feca the way it was intended.
Yes, please. My main is just that, and I'm very disappointed that not only does fire damage% not affect it, but mechanical damage doesn't either. :c

Since they had the feca revamp in mind for like months now, they just thought: screw it, we will revamp it anyway.
Now months later you're still not revamped and the bug is still here biggrin

Also even if there is no real other element + heal set. There is enough water damage + other element sets out there.

For Water/Air you got the Undertone Set.
For Water/Earth there is Rampart Set
And Water/Fire still has Excarnus with added +heals
Chrolo|2013-05-09 01:25:53 Since they had the feca revamp in mind for like months now, they just thought: screw it, we will revamp it anyway.
Now months later you're still not revamped and the bug is still here biggrin

Also even if there is no real other element + heal set. There is enough water damage + other element sets out there.

For Water/Air you got the Undertone Set.
For Water/Earth there is Rampart Set
And Water/Fire still has Excarnus with added +heals
You cant get those as a hybrid healer because no one want a healer that cant heal :p
Omni characters get nothing.
HakazabaJub|2013-05-09 01:37:06
Chrolo|2013-05-09 01:25:53 Since they had the feca revamp in mind for like months now, they just thought: screw it, we will revamp it anyway.
Now months later you're still not revamped and the bug is still here biggrin

Also even if there is no real other element + heal set. There is enough water damage + other element sets out there.

For Water/Air you got the Undertone Set.
For Water/Earth there is Rampart Set
And Water/Fire still has Excarnus with added +heals
You cant get those as a hybrid healer because no one want a healer that cant heal :p
Only water/fire get the sir Welkington set but the others and especially omni characters get nothing.
What?

Just because these sets dont have +heal as stat doesnt mean you cant heal.
Also ofc if you go hybrid you will heal less than a fully dedicated healer. You can have all man, get real
Chrolo|2013-05-09 01:46:58What?

Just because these sets dont have +heal as stat doesnt mean you cant heal.
Also ofc if you go hybrid you will heal less than a fully dedicated healer. You can have all man, get real
Thats not what i ment, you listed a bunch of sets that are very difficault to get that a sub par healer would not have the chance to get because no one would be invited to it.

And there is no 3 element sets, And the vast majority of weapons that have ap are general damage.

Do you think its fine that someone could grind hours for infernal and not realize its completely useless for them because of some obscure bug?

Is it fine that any character that heals is worse off just because general damage sets, which are extremely good now are not usable to them?
HakazabaJub|2013-05-09 01:51:33
Chrolo|2013-05-09 01:46:58What?

Just because these sets dont have +heal as stat doesnt mean you cant heal.
Also ofc if you go hybrid you will heal less than a fully dedicated healer. You can have all man, get real
Thats not what i ment, you listed a bunch of sets that are very difficault to get that a sub par healer would not have the chance to get because no one would be invited to it.

And there is no 3 element sets, And the vast majority of weapons that have ap are general damage.

Do you think its fine that someone could grind hours for infernal and not realize its completely useless for them because of some obscure bug?

Is it fine that any character that heals is worse off just because general damage sets, which are extremely good now are not usable to them?

You keep calling this a bug. Its not. Its as simple as that.

Also, it is counter-intuitive to assume that general damage gear will increase your healing. Hell, it took me long enough to discover that Water Damage will increase my Eni's healing (took an hour of turning up nothing conclusive in the forums and an hour of testing in game after it occured to me that my heal bonus alone couldn't account for my healing total).

I would think that people assuming that general damage will increase their healing would be in the minority quite easily HakazabaJub.
I think it's intended. It's why you see water gear with heals on it. And it's why they made masqueraider specialty for dodge let their dodge give plus heals or plus damage both. It's on purpose. Healers get plus heals as a stat that's all their own, summoners get plus summons damage. Critical hit damage does nothing for healers but crits do.
Forlinj|2013-05-09 01:11:10When you're a Dev trying to make a balanced game, you assign a certain amount of 'points' to a piece of gear.

While that makes logical sense, having spent many hours trying to find the point ratio for items I can say that while you or I might follow that line of thought, there is no evidence Ankama does. The same Level of belt of same quality and rarity contains the same stats of differing values. This means that there is -not- a point system used to allocate stats on items.

Crafted items that have "variation" are a perfect example however lets assume they are unique "fringe" cases. Here's some other examples:

Scarabelt Click here
BliBli Belt Click here

Both of those belts are identical in regards to stats allocation barring 1 stat.
Each has:
14HP
+3 Damage (1 element)
-5% Resist (1 element)
+1 Wisdom
+5 Inititaive

Then 1 has 9 lock the other has 7 dodge.

Based on that we can conclude that dodge and lock are not equal in point cost.

But then we have this scenario
Trembella Belt Click here
Atroashbelt Click here

Again all identical except one has dodge and one has lock except this time its 10 of each. This means that dodge and lock are equal and now you have broken your point allocation system.

That is just 1 example. I had hoped initially that there were just a few fringe cases but by the time i was done, i found it was more random chance 2 items of the same Type and Level had the same total "point allocation"
HakazabaJub|2013-05-09 01:51:33
Chrolo|2013-05-09 01:46:58What?

Just because these sets dont have +heal as stat doesnt mean you cant heal.
Also ofc if you go hybrid you will heal less than a fully dedicated healer. You can have all man, get real
Thats not what i ment, you listed a bunch of sets that are very difficault to get that a sub par healer would not have the chance to get because no one would be invited to it.

And there is no 3 element sets, And the vast majority of weapons that have ap are general damage.

Do you think its fine that someone could grind hours for infernal and not realize its completely useless for them because of some obscure bug?

Is it fine that any character that heals is worse off just because general damage sets, which are extremely good now are not usable to them?
They have implemented alot low level hybrid sets. choose one of them and farm up your the high level ones. Or stay mono element until you have the set.
A set being hard to get is a bad excuse.

And yes there are no Tri element sets, but omni builds are not really viable right now either.
Forlinj|2013-05-09 02:09:55You keep calling this a bug. Its not. Its as simple as that.

Also, it is counter-intuitive to assume that general damage gear will increase your healing. Hell, it took me long enough to discover that Water Damage will increase my Eni's healing (took an hour of turning up nothing conclusive in the forums and an hour of testing in game after it occured to me that my heal bonus alone couldn't account for my healing total).

I would think that people assuming that general damage will increase their healing would be in the minority quite easily HakazabaJub.
I find this very hard to believe, you only start getting healing damage gear after level 50 and you spent that whole time thinking that water damage wasn't increasing your healing? i refuse to believe you were that dense, it is not counter intuitive that water damage increases the effectiveness of your water spells

When we wear general damage gear and look at our stats it shows our water damage increasing, just as when we wear water damage gear, and I've heard the stories of many hybrid players who have wondered why they suck so much.

Ankama has spoken many times about wanting to encourage hybrid players, and general damage sets are what hybrid players use before having complete endgame gear, omni characters always use it,Kraken and Vampiro are good enough for any character going in to end game except for healers, to whom it is pointless for anything but selling if they know about the bug.

At the moment any character that heals is forced to specialize in water or be completely ineffectual, there are a couple of dual damage sets that can help like the duke wellington set. but thare are no triple element sets because that is what general damage is for.
and this isn't to make healers less effective damage dealers since pure water builds can still be damage dealers.

This is a bug just as much as only general damage effecting fire glyphs is a bug and giving +heals to damage passives is just a way around it.

Chrolo|2013-05-09 02:56:44And yes there are no Tri element sets, but omni builds are not really viable right now either.
Bullshit, they just got super viable after the way the rune revamp effected general damage sets. Krakaen and Vampiro are amazing and omni charracters actually gain extra spell xp able to fully max 3 spells, some classes are better at it than others though.

Omni feca and xelor are great, omni saddida was great too before it got a healing tree.
HakazabaJub|2013-05-09 03:06:03
Chrolo|2013-05-09 02:56:44And yes there are no Tri element sets, but omni builds are not really viable right now either.
Bullshit, they just got super viable after the way the rune revamp effected general damage sets. Krakaen and Vampiro are amazing and omni charracters actually gain extra spell xp able to fully max 3 spells, some classes are better at it than others though.

Omni feca and xelor are great, omni saddida was great too before it got a healing tree.

Given i havent seen any of those omni builds in action yet, i dare to say that they are about as good as if they just go dual element.

The major advantage of being hybrid is to hit in another element if the monster has resist to one of your elements. Like those nasty Mechazerkers for Earth chars.

Fire/Air xelor can still rape ap. Any element Fecas can still buff. And whatever that Omni Sadi could have done.

But yes i have to admit that Vampyro set got pretty good. But the general damage not working for heal thing was way before buffed Vampyro and Kraken.
Also Heals dont get affected by Resist.

Also we are getting way to offtopic. All i wanted to say is that it's not a bug
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