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I really want to roll a panda and sram but I want to know whats being changed for both so I dont get too attached to a build that gets turned to rubbish or becomes less effective than a new tree with revamps.

Would be nice to see weapons used in some spells.

Like say, equip a bow on a cra (not only actually using the bow for the animations rather than putting it away), but augmenting the spell to have an additional effect.

Might want to look into almost all the insignias from the boutique then.

Valkyrie shows eps.
Froggy shows eps.
Hurl shows boots.
Ninja shows cape.

Also, can you make all insignias tradeable, kinda annoyed my almoken insigs are bound.

Would definitely love to see some more status conditions added to the game and not have bosses immune to them. Maybe some status conditions that only apply on crit/backstab/block on current spells so that it doesnt require a savage rebalancing.

If bosses werent instantly immune to the heavier debuffs, or so heavily resistant, it would open up some opportunities for some classes right there.

Too many spells in the game are straight up damage or have AoE as their "utility". Status conditions would boost up single target builds to the point of being able to compete with AoE focused builds. Or hey, if the status condition is potent enough, its enough to bring a class along purely for that alone.

Another little thought (though I get the feeling people would hate it) Is to remove resistance on enemies and increase their hp to compensate. Meaning your choice in element doesnt restrict where you can grind/what you can fight.

Though that does then leave stasis foggers in the shitter. Kinda removes their whole gimmick.


This post has been edited by 7carpileup847 - March 10, 2013, 05:25:48.

Uh... Several MMOs give out rewards for achievements. Sure the majority are just hallmark cards saying "Yay you did it". But the harder ones offer cosmetic items, mounts, pets, titles (yes I know wakfu gives us some titles.)



Or maybe it's as I and others have said, hard to find anyone to take a non-cookie cutter into a group?

Can't really try anything if you can't start or don't have a full team of accounts to yourself.

To those saying "Maybe this isn't the game for you." Here's the thing.

There are differences between games and then there's poor design elements. A difference would be comparing this game to a traditional mmo's combat. Where this plays entirely different and there isnt really much grounds to hold one against another. Like trying to compare a racing game with a fighting game.

A poor design element would be say, Wakfu not allowing respecs untill recently. Where if you made a choice in an uninformed state, it would permanantly injure the effectiveness of your character and have no means of remedying it. Wasting the time you spent in levelling that character. This is something you can compare to other MMOs because of the fact that many do offer the ability to reallocate points.

This is what I'm doing with my statements earlier. I like wakfu for what it is but it does have some glaring issues. Ignoring those issues under the guise of labelling it as "different" is foolish. I've seen a resturaunt crash and burn IRL as it labelled itself as different, while ignoring the standard the other nearby resturaunts were offering. Needless to say, it went bankrupt. It lost its customers and its reputation.

We see it more and more nowdays with MMOs turning free to play entirely, from their former monthly subscription. They don't adapt, they make poor descisions and lose popularity. Wakfu is a niche MMO relying on a very specific market for it's income. I highly doubt that the minority who are willing to put up with poor design elements for a prolonged period of time, are enough to keep this MMO from hitting the fully free to play list.

I'm not denying the fact wakfu also has good points and good design choices. But it seems easier to dissuade the general masses with a handful of bad elements than it is easier to keep them with a dozen good ones.


This post has been edited by 7carpileup847 - March 09, 2013, 03:51:18.

Been considering 10-12ap fire dragon as of late, taking advantage of the hurl sets bonus crit damage.

Smaller aoe than earth but hits harder with Boo+Moo, 12 ap allowing for 2xBoo or 1xBwork 1xBoo 1xMoo.

Yeah... Wait and see how long that lasts before people get tired of wasting weeks upon weeks of runs just to test things out when they could be doing the cookie cutter and getting the loots.

This is one of the points I was trying to make. Well several really.

There is very little opportunity to test out new setups within groups. We need that testing trial and error period so people can ease out of the cookie cutter group combinations.

Thats more along the lines of fire fogger being not so amazing and less the masq being OP.

Thats the set I'm after, though getting into crow runs is a pain in the ass T^T.

The cosmetic gear is predominately purchased through real money, the others are random chance drops, hidden easter eggs (which I do like and is a nice spin on things. Would love to see more~) and a monthly grind. Less of a "Get to x point, beat this." or "Get to x point, do this particularly difficult challenge or quirky way to beat this boss." Theyre more of a "Oh hey it dropped unexpectedly." The dropped insigs arn't an incentive unless you enjoy grinding for a 0.1% drop.

Titles are reletively few and arn't particularly apparant as to how to obtain them, reducing any incentive they may offer. Also, once more they are purchasable.

Achievements are there yes, but are oft the "Go here, do what you would have done without instruction. Have a unremarkable reward." It's like theyre the general quests you would get in another MMO but without the npc interaction. Less of a congratulations and more of a ... Well not much really. Just a hey, you did it.

As to the rewards for server firsts, I wasn't aware of em. That would have just been an assumption on my behalf.

Bosses... Thats a matter of opinion, up till now most people solved the problem with just throwing more and more eni's at the boss till they could heal through it. Now arguably the endgame combat is harder, but I ask. Is the public attracted to the concept of stepping through a door, attempting a big bad boss once. Win or lose, step back out and be done with it in a short period of time and have little to do for the rest of the week.

Or would we rather spawling through a dungeon, filled with lore/story, mid-bosses, aggressive monsters and a boss that might take a few attempts to beat? Difficulty wasnt the question as much as the attraction to the entire experience of a boss. But then maybe I have a bit of Sadlygrove's mentality when it comes to dungeons and bosses.

The game has plenty of story behind it if you watch/read/play other wakfu/dofus inspired things. But without that interaction you would be a bit out of the loop.

As for the casual thing, it was more of a statement on the flexibility of class selection and the time allocated to the final dungeons/bosses. The endgame doesnt allow for much testing without large time periods inbetween. The current mechanics for a few classes leads into cookie cutter builds and limits which classes people are willing to take to these endgame events.

But there are games that cater to the casual player, adding bonus exp for taking a break from the game. Global dungeon servers that can connect to other servers, vastly improving your odds of getting into a dungeon when you feel like it. Group searching functions. Higher droprates on common gear. Less exp requirements per level untill the final 1/3 needed to reach cap. PvP from anywhere in the game etc.

Basically stuff that allows you to do what you feel like when you feel like, even if you only have say an hour a day to play video games.

I don't neccesarilly think all games need to cater to this crowd but at a certain point you are just going a bit too far down the scale in the opposite direction.

A General Rant This is a bit of a continuation of a ramble I had in a separate thread, but I thought to repost it with some additional comments on incentive within the game. If you want to skip the rant about multi-clienting and tactical choices relating to the solo player jump to the bold.

The way I see mmo's in general, you pick your character and play it through the game. Customise it to your liking/whichever playstyle is the most effective and try to enjoy the game as you progress and empower this character to the point of taking on the endgame PvE. PvP has its own niche but in wakfu its little more than entertainment and epeen measuring.

My problem with wakfu is this, the game is designed for group play from around the level 15-20 point. Where mobs take a rather savage leap in hp pools/damage output. Or if not this, group up and have a really high level total. Now, if the game were heavily populated and you were able to find someone to at least duo with at all times in any zone at any point in the levelling experience, this wouldn't be an issue.

But this is definitely not the case.

Now unless you happen upon one of the more populated guilds (that isnt just 5 people with 6 accounts each) AND one of these people are willing to powerlevel you for hours, you are going to be grinding for a VERY long time. As the game punishes you for taking on large groups alone by reducing the exp reward, while also lowering exp rewards for singular monsters unless theyre particularly close to your level.

So, rarer still are the new players without guild or multi-accounts, making it even more unlikely to find someone just roaming about.

Now, if I were able to use 2-3 characters on one account to make a small party (not even a full party), to grind or fill in the gaps of a higher level party. I would be much more inclined to play the game as intended, rather than just find a way to speed through the first 40-60 levels. It would also make me much more inclined to play support, healing or tanking builds because it wouldnt require dragging out fights over a large number of turns when any damage dealer would do it in 2-3.

Thus we come to multi-clients.

If I were able to log into the same account several times, this would provide the previously mentioned solution to my woes. But as several people mentioned, this would then allow account sharing and thus potentially hinder Ankamas potential income. But multiple accounts doesn't exactly solve our problems either because we have to pay double the subscription.

Now before I continue, I should say that I do love wakfu and its visual design and tactical turn based combat in general. But this does not make it immune to criticism.

But, simply put, as the population of the game declines due to unpopularity or poor reception due to revamps or unimpressive content etc. Multi-clienting will become near mandatory to play the game effectively. As is I know people who play 4-6 accounts at once just so they dont have to rely on others to play the basic elements of the game. Sure, some of these accounts might not be subbed at all times. But if one were to sub each account for a year (just a generalisation for the sake of comparison) you would be spending in excess of $360 AUD.

This figure is nearly double one would expect to pay for a particularly detailed, high res 3d game with live support, constant updates and an endgame that keeps the high leveled players coming back for at least 3-4 days of the week.

So, as the population declines and the urge to multi-client rises, does Ankama think that enough people will pay the bill for this many accounts to validate not allowing someone to log into one account several times and having a higher playerbase due to a more welcoming/flexible playstyle.

One restriction you could put in place for allowing multiple logins is that they all come from the same IP. Disconnecting an account if it is recorded to come from two locations at once.

Arguably, you could retain the single player style and just increase the rewards for overcoming large obstacles on your own rather than penalize the player for it. But then its really 6 of one, half dozen of another.

But with the whole, tactical element of the game, is it really neccesary to limit the player to only one set of spells and one unit. As someone has allready stated, if there was ever a Final Fantasy Tactics MMO it would win out based on the multiple character concept in a heartbeat.

That and the onslaught of fans for the franchise.

Moving on from my rambling about multi-clients.

One thing I've noticed within the community and people leaving the game is incentive, or lack of to be accurate. Most MMO's have several incentives to continue playing, be it achievments, titles, cosmetic gear, VERY difficult endgame bosses, rewarding people for reaching milestones before anyone else on a server etc.

Wakfu has... gear and proffessions. The main focus of any player past making the next cookie cutter build is to gain the best gear and hit/heal/absorb the biggest numbers. As much as this is present in other games, it is not the only reward for doing something memorable. I might point out, in other MMO's it is MUCH more likely to attain gear from defeating anything memorable. The rare drops are the particularly unique or above average items that are used as trophies for the few that happened upon them. Wakfu's droprates being what they are make the gear that defines the players effectiveness within a team much harder to come across and thus limits the pool of players/characters that you take to the endgame in the hopes of clearing your goal.

Admittedly, Wakfu rewards players who partake in professions vastly more than in other games. Though the difficulty level is much higher to master a profession, the reward is well worth it. Not my cup of tea personally but it's not something I can deny or omit.

As is, there is even little incentive to max out a character. Levelling is at a snails pace without leeching, slower if you intend to make a non-damage directed character. The more available sets of gear appear around the 80-100 bracket, anything more is limited to those who multi-client, have deep pockets or completed the content when it was fresh. Even levelling spells to max is somewhat pointless as gear quite often grants several levels towards the spells of the corresponding element.

Raids or other large group required content in other MMO's are also usually quite time consuming, whilst also being an adventure within themselves. Often telling a story or continuing on from a story from questing/levelling. Making the experience have more of a buildup and the effort more satisfying.

Wakfu's endgame is rather shortlived and with one ATTEMPT per week in several under-an-hour dungeons, particularly offputting to anyone contemplating experimenting with tactics. Reading the forums, many people would like to offer more tactics or group composition options, but lack the time or patience to wait several weeks just to perform these tests. Thus we get the cookie cutter builds and the restricted group composition/specs. If one were to comment to say that these smaller timeframes were designed so that the casual player could play and complete them without devoting large amounts of time into them, I ask this. Where was that logic applied within the games levelling period, droprates, experience distribution and crafting.

A casual player would have to be particularly hooked on this game to EVER see any of the endgame.

I imagine the community would be willing to offer their opinion as to what they would see as an incentive to continue their subscription and their prolonged interest within the game. I for one would like to see a few things. (These are less demands and more of a wishlist.)

- Single account parties of 2-3. Allowing for one player to controll at least one additional character and play the game as intended without suffering the low population. Without the requirement of subscribing multiple accounts and substantially pumping up the bill to play the game.

- Larger dungeons that save their state even when you leave, giving a more epic feel to the experience and the ability to attempt several times. Maybe saving the instance to the party leader rather than the whole group. (Just because I have seen this cause several issues in the past with people forgetting they are linked to a dungeon and then getting others saved to that same instance.)

- Removal of the key system for dungeons, potentially keeping them open at all times or having alternate quests/requirements to open them. I understand why the UB's had their quests removed, but it does definitely make a dungeon feel more than a shopping list for gear if it has a little buildup. Though that buildup can be achieved within the dungeon with a narrative or npcs/flavour text.

- Potentially increasing exp gains at lower levels (1-40/60), so that powerlevelling/leeching is not such a gargantuan gain in comparison. Also reducing the timeframe a player spends playing a class in a state that is substantially sub par compared to a character with a little more AP/Stat points/Passives/Actives. As I think this oft turns off new players as they spend a long time repeating fights in the same skill rotation without getting the opportunity to change up this rotation untill 40-80 when more +AP/MP gear becomes available. Not to mention the fact that it also builds up practice of bad habits or using an inefficient build.

- Barring the previous request, more +AP/MP items at levels lower than 40. As is there isnt a set of gear that offers +AP and +damage to each of the elements, early air and water sets offering MP instead. On top of this, +AP gear without negatives would be a godsend to the levelling player. I'm aware Ankama wants to limit the potential builds and limit what slots govern AP gains. But, what use is there in penalizing a player for trying to play a build at lower levels. These builds will become available before max level, there are items to get these builds at lower levels. But, shouldn't the tradeoff for +AP/MP and no other gains be enough? The spells and classes within the game arn't balanced for Lvl 30, Lvl 50, Lvl 70. They're balanced for the maximum level at the time and the synergy/competition between other classes. So why limit playstyles over offering resources to allow experimentation or variation in the levelling phase. Especially since we only get one free respec at 30, looooong before we know what is effective within a classes boundries if we haven't thoroughly researched beforehand.

(Added this one in as it came to mind recently.)
- Evolution of spells once reaching level 100. Maybe consider having each spell having an evolution upon its current effects upon hitting 100 and only having the option of evolving one spell per character. As is we have access to every spell by lvl 10 and other than ap gains allowing us to do more of whats effective, we do the same spells every turn every match till we get tired of the class. While most MMOs nowdays do give you the majority of your spells early, so that you know what youre playing before you invest too much time into it. This line of thought leaves very little to drive a player foreward besides making numbers bigger and wearing different clothes. Evolving spells at 100 would separate the power difference between 100+ players and those below. But it would give a much stronger drive to reach that max spell level rather than just finish the last few levels off with +lvl gear. I would expect such evolutions to just be an enhanced state of the current spell. Just a few examples:

Dragon Air osa - Whip turns to: Cat-O-Nine tails. Hits 9 times, each hit being marginally lower than a normal whip but each has a separate chance to crit. Does bonus damage from behind.

Earth Iop - Devastate turns to: Quaker. Spell leaves behind crackler style cracks increasing damage/reducing resist for enemies hit by follow up Quakers.

With ALL spells having the option to evolve, they may bring about more use of the less popular spells as their evolution may prove more useful than the conventional builds.

Yes I'm aware this would need a huge amount of rebalancing.

Anyway, long rant is long and it is getting late here. I imagine some people will have differing opinions on several matters, and I'm more than happy to alter or change my views. This is just coming from a customer perspective, new player perspective, old player perspective and a solo player perspective. I enjoy most video games for face value, though nowdays I tend to continue playing or revisit games if they offer more than others to continue playing. I don't neccesarilly want freebies, but ya know. FUN is kinda why we play these things.


This post has been edited by 7carpileup847 - March 08, 2013, 13:40:50.

This is something thats been on my mind as of late, thoroughly irritating me most of the time.

The way I see mmo's in general, you pick your character and play it through the game. Customise it to your liking/whichever playstyle is the most effective and try to enjoy the game as you progress and empower this character to the point of taking on the endgame PvE. PvP has its own niche but in wakfu its little more than entertainment and epeen measuring.

My problem with wakfu is this, the game is designed for group play from around the level 15-20 point. Where mobs take a rather savage leap in hp pools/damage output. Or if not this, group up and have a really high level total. Now, if the game were heavily populated and you were able to find someone to at least duo with at all times in any zone at any point in the levelling experience, this wouldn't be an issue.

But this is definitely not the case.

Now unless you happen upon one of the more populated guilds (that isnt just 5 people with 6 accounts each) AND one of these people are willing to powerlevel you for hours, you are going to be grinding for a VERY long time. As the game punishes you for taking on large groups alone by reducing the exp reward, while also lowering exp rewards for singular monsters unless theyre particularly close to your level.

So, rarer still are the new players without guild or multi-accounts, making it even more unlikely to find someone just roaming about.

Now, if I were able to use 2-3 characters on one account to make a small party (not even a full party), to grind or fill in the gaps of a higher level party. I would be much more inclined to play the game as intended, rather than just find a way to speed through the first 40-60 levels. It would also make me much more inclined to play support, healing or tanking builds because it wouldnt require dragging out fights over a large number of turns when any damage dealer would do it in 2-3.

Thus we come to multi-clients.

If I were able to log into the same account several times, this would provide the previously mentioned solution to my woes. But as several people mentioned, this would then allow account sharing and thus potentially hinder Ankamas potential income. But multiple accounts doesn't exactly solve our problems either because we have to pay double the subscription.

Now before I continue, I should say that I do love wakfu and its visual design and tactical turn based combat in general. But this does not make it immune to criticism.

But, simply put, as the population of the game declines due to unpopularity or poor reception due to revamps or unimpressive content etc. Multi-clienting will become near mandatory to play the game effectively. As is I know people who play 4-6 accounts at once just so they dont have to rely on others to play the basic elements of the game. Sure, some of these accounts might not be subbed at all times. But if one were to sub each account for a year (just a generalisation for the sake of comparison) you would be spending in excess of $360 AUD.

This figure is nearly double one would expect to pay for a particularly detailed, high res 3d game with live support, constant updates and an endgame that keeps the high leveled players coming back for at least 3-4 days of the week.

So, as the population declines and the urge to multi-client rises, does Ankama think that enough people will pay the bill for this many accounts to validate not allowing someone to log into one account several times and having a higher playerbase due to a more welcoming/flexible playstyle.

One restriction you could put in place for allowing multiple logins is that they all come from the same IP. Disconnecting an account if it is recorded to come from two locations at once.

Arguably, you could retain the single player style and just increase the rewards for overcoming large obstacles on your own rather than penalize the player for it. But then its really 6 of one, half dozen of another.

But with the whole, tactical element of the game, is it really neccesary to limit the player to only one set of spells and one unit. As someone has allready stated, if there was ever a Final Fantasy Tactics MMO it would win out based on the multiple character concept in a heartbeat.

That and the onslaught of fans for the franchise.

/endrant

Not to burst the bubble or anything, but generally speaking no class will remain at 6ap for any longer than they have to. Most builds end up with 8-10 ap, going for things like:

1x 4ap Spell/Double 1x Execute

Double performs Execute

or

2x Cold blood 1x 4ap spell

Double performs Execute (If previously summoned)

or

1x First blood 1x 4ap spell 1x Double

Double performs execute.

You would also use guile from air to always get behind your opponent.

'Till you hit that 10ap however, the easiest and heaviest damage is just to execute and your clone do the same. Hemorrhage is a -really- poor damage mechanic, it takes a very long time for it to stack to any remarkable levels and most things will die before you can execute them whilst in a party.

With that said you do need to level all your spells to a certain degree, because each level grants a bonus to that elements damage/resists.

The reality is however, fire simply doesnt hit as hard as a 10ap air build, 2x Trauma, double follows up with another trauma.

Sram right now is pretty bland, its get behind the enemy and use your heaviest attack if youre air or fire. Water uses its lifesteal and ap steal to survive or marginally debilitate its opponent.

Well if youre talking purely flat damage, no backstab no crit etc. 3x Whip + 1x Scara.

But factors tend to arise that limit your spell options, or gear that buffs things like backstab to the point of warranting doing two backstab hits over 3 frontal.

I hope we dont lose our waiting gifts... I still had my respec scrolls there.

I went with 1ap 1range 1mp, rest crit. Gives you range comparable to a cra whilst in dragon form, extra scara hits if you need or the ability to get around.

Then crit is well, dragon osa's speciality with the revamp. So getting to around 50% with your buff up would help dramatically. But at a certain point you need to decide if critting is getting you enough damage to not be stockpiling your points into flat damage.

But the general concensus on the forums is that flat damage isnt worth the stat points you pour into it.

M-bad

Thanks Sharing, huuuuuuuuuuuge help.

I think because psychotik turns the targets gaze to where you land, it's turning their back to the origin point. So no matter where you hit it from, its considered a backstab.

Sort of similar to how blisskrieg works, if you cast it in front of an enemy and land behind, its a front attack. If you cast from behind and land in front, its a rear attack.