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In need of a serious buff Right now Fecas' contribution to battle is rather insignificant. Why? Lets list the causes, and take a look at possible solutions! (Disclaimer: Note that I don't think all of these should be implemented, balance is important and should be maintained. I also don't say I'm the first one to propose every solution, but I thought mentioning them would be useful.)

No Damage

That direct dmg is low is perfectly acceptable. Fecas have glyphs, armors and Intimidation Aura to balance it out. Its just that they dont't work.

Glyphs(fire): With guessing what the AI will do, you have some actual chance of using them in solo. Even then their dmg will not blast through the roof. In a team on the other hand, its really rare that you can effectively place one. With AoE there is a high chance (practically 100% in most cases) of hurting your melee allies. Single target ones will not deal reasonable dmg. And with all the moving around you gotta replace them often if you can find an opportunity at all. Their dmg is around half of the corresponding attack, which would be acceptable if that wasn't so low. Fecastopheles Glyph shouldn't target other glyphs of the caster.
TLDR: Hard to place, and even then low dmg.
Possible solutions:
Remove LoS requirement (at least on high lvls of GoA) - This would need that not only the GoA spell loses the LoS need, but elemental spells too, only for the purposes of glyph placement (i.e. you can't hit an enemy there, but can activate a glyph).
More Dmg - Exploding Glyph can be used to create bombs, but that needs a high char lvl, and should not be the only way of damaging with glyphs. Maybe give Feca a way to get Mechanics Dmg - Passive skill or from Ability points. There are no good sources of it from items either.

Armor(fire): Practical in solo only. Even then, don't expect to even get close to the output of moderately dmg oriented classes. Completely useless in their current form in groups. Each attack from an ally knocks a plate off, so don't even try to bust out the DoT ones - 1 or 2 hit max (maybe 3 with high Feca Master). With Cursed Armor (Natural Attack), this is somehow understandable, since it gives an effect on attack, but I don't think we get our Wakfu Point's worth.
Possible solutions:
No plate loss on attack - Tweak down the maximum (Feca Master) to 7 or so and its a viable option.
Cursed Armor - Should start on -5% res.

Armor(earth): Their dmg compared to fire is lower, their selling point is that they (can) hit more enemies. They may only be a viable option if we can "refresh" them not just on ourselves, but on our allies. Though I'm not sure how useful the retaliation for AP/MP loss (Defensive Orb) Armor is (its for 2AP, so maybe ok).

Intimidation Aura: It has great limitations: You need to lvl it, and on lower char lvls it means you either take it from GoA and Feca Master, meaning you cant really use them, or from defense (Ironclad and Spell Rebound). If you don't need defense, then you play a flanking position and Intimidation Aura is useless. So neither is a really good option.
Possible solution: The skill is ok, we just need another effective way to deal dmg (see above).

Selfish Defense

Though they are advertised as "Protectors" the only one they can protect now is themselves, with the passives.

Armor(water): Drip, Steamy and Bubble Armor are good in theory, but (as many have said already) the first should start at 10%, because its practically useless for 20 lvls or so. Steamy is ok if water dmg bonus increases its effect. The last 2 sound ok too, but I don't think they are worth that cost. Maybe their effect can be buffed. If one gets changed, it would be good to see a +dodge or +lock Armor.

Glyphs(water and earth): +dodge and to an extent +MP are not too useful in my opinion, since they help the user escape from the glyph, making it a one-shot with high probability. +crit starts too low for its price, 5% would be better, maybe its max can be raised too. +res starts too low too, as its Armor brother. +AP and +MP shouldn't lose a charge immediately if cast "under" someone, because its practically wasted. All can work with the current max number of charges otherwise.

Specialties: Right now all of them are focused on the Feca him/herself, with Feca Mater the only one others can get significant defensive benefits from through GoA.
Possible solutions:
Protective Aura - A "reverse" Intimidation Aura that gives res and/or block bonus to nearby (first distance 1, max at 3) allies. Maybe Ironclad should be tweaked to balance the cumulative effect on the Feca (or merge the two).
Protective Field - Lets the Feca extend the effect of his/her elemental Armor to nearby (dist. 1 to 3) allies.
Altruistic Armor - An Armor that transfers a % of the user's protective attributes (res, block) to an ally. I mean it so that the Feca would lose that much for the time being. Would take the place of Peace Armor.
Peace Armor (new) - Cast on an ally, at removal deals dmg to the Feca, reduced by (half) of his/her res.


I really hope something gets done about this class, because it has lots of potential.

Nuff said. You basicly said everything what is wrong with this class at this moment.

From my point of view: Feca is the only class in Wakfu that needs almost all his elemental skills on max level to be useful... but real problem starts with support skills. You just can't decide what is more important and what to lvlup first... 9 of 10 are CORE and absolutly needed for Feca

I guess Feca testing on level 100 is fun for Ankama but before that he's the most useless class on the battlefield.

Armors and charges need rework, bugs need to be fixed (a lot of them), and some kind of rebalance of elemental skills would be nice.

For example - Drip starts with 1% Resist bonus... this means if you want to use this kind of armor on someone then it's useless untill lvl 50-60... but Feca should exp with ther spells... it's much more effective. So...how about rebalance of these stats? Drip starts up with 15% Resist Bonus and slowly growning to it's max potential... useful on lvl 1, lvl 50 and on lvl 100. Right now only on lvl 50+...

I guess it's pretty obvious for us to see this. Feca need some love. I don't have a doubt that level 100 Feca is really strong... but you can't be usless until then... it's just too long way. Early game need buffs.

- a first improvement can be the fusion of armor/glyph with feca master (with a base cost of 4ap 2wp).
that because other classes main abilities can be used in one turn like the dial of the xelor or the summon of the osa and those abilies are stronger than a single armor/glyph.
the feca is more like the sadida but he hasn't a lot of low cost spells so the activation of glyph/armors take away entire turns.

- Auras: passives like ironclad and compulsion must work like absorption so if an ally is closer he can receive a buff (not 100% of the owner of the passives but at least a 30%-50%, not stackable if the other char has the same buff like Kikuhimonji support in his thread about blood pact).

[i'll add later other things] 


This post has been edited by prespicboy - January 28, 2012, 11:00:08.

I'll agree Feca actually gets weaker in party play, while solo you can do much more. Only Tank build Fecas can roll well with party, but Feca is not only a tank but also a 'protector' wasn't it?

Armor plates drop system needs a rework; you can armor yourself okay by recharging it but armoring others just wasting your turn. And some earth armors are still bugged, hoping they'll get fixed.

Fire glyphs can damage you and your group very bad with their massive aoe range, and nobody likes taking extra hits from those glyphs if they're melee class. That contradicts their protector title, it's more like you sacrifice your friends in order to deal damage! So fire fecas just doesn't use their glyphs groups, unless they happen to find a lone enemy away.

About the main problem of Feca buffs, they start low really. Max levels doesn't seem like bad at all (30% from Drip Armor + 20% from Fecammer Glyph + More Fecammer Glyphs, if you happen to be lucky and leveled both) but not everybody likes being underdog for long time and just roll with another class. Not to mention you'll have to level nearly all earth-water spells. Though I wonder those resists is actually enough for times when you got them on level 100...

Making earth armors deal more damage than their direct attack could be interesting idea maybe?

i think that depends if the plate system is going to be changed or not, if the plate system remains as it is the armor damage/resistence must be raised.

You're playing him way too branch reliant.
I put all my points into the passive with % resistance
and turning resistance into damage, after that I grabbed myself a weapon
and leveled all my spells to 20 for resistances.

I only do 50 damage a turn with my weapon, but also only take about 60% less damage from the spells of every other class.

Stronger tank then a sacrier.

Problem is not that they're bad at tanking, but underpowered armors/glyphs they apply to their party members.

They're cool tanks no doubt, but they also supposed to be some kind of 'buffer' aren't they?

probably you've done that before the .312 patch because with the actual patch the res% that you gain from leveling spells is too low.

anyway what's your level, what support spells have you leveled and what characteristic have you increased?


This post has been edited by prespicboy - January 28, 2012, 22:19:26.

What do you mean by fusing the two? That would create a support spell which lowers the cost, increases range, increases duration (plate/charge) of glyphs and armors plus gives mechanics. That would be too much. You talk about casting in one turn. You can do that already with enough lvl in GoA.
And to make an aura out of every passive? What for? It fits Feca because his/her role of protector. Again, I think that would be OP or useless.



Yes, I'm really interested too. I take it you use Ironclad+Pacification. If we were to suppose you have both on max, then your char lvl is 41+. With the two support spells your dmg bonus would be 62+resistance from equip, elemental bonus and ability points. I would be surprised if the former is over 30, with lvl 20 spells, the 2nd will be around 10. It costs too much to have the last in all elements. So you get 102 max (a bit better for 1 element). Compare with me. At lvl 35, still under your lvl41+, I will have 105% dmg bonus in fire. (The Clan Member bonus is in that, but you don't get it bc Pacification) My most used spells are around lvl21, and they don't deal much (enough) dmg. At your lvl they would be even more useless. Apart from that I have to admit its pretty good. But you need WP to maintain it so 6 turns max. It also doesen't scale well with char lvl: you get more dmg than res from equips and elemental bonus, the two parts that grow and make a difference with Pacification (ability bonus does not). And while you use Pacification, you will lose your "tank" status as your res will drop. Weapons give dmg bonus, so that does not count and if you use it as the main source of dmg, your spells won't lvl. Your only advantage is that its for all elements.
Above all else, even if you have the spell lvls, you still have no points in GoA or Feca Master, plus need the WP for Pacification. So no glyphs and armors for you (or your allies), only the basic effect of elemental spells.

i've suggested to put in the same support spell goa and feca master because the costs/benefits are not so high and probably the feca need another (and better) support spell.

like the feca there are other classes that need to "set up" their special abilities.
- the xelor set up dial, attack and move more than 3 squares in the same turn, and that's at lvl 1! the main problem of this ability are the low charges at low levels but they increase with spell levels to a reasonable amount and the fact that the dial is fragile (1 charge lost per hit). an enemy can hit both the dial and the xelor with a wide aoe spell (usually mobs don't target the dial).

- the water pandawa can put down the barrel and attack in the same turn at lvl 1, the barrel has a decent amount of charges (6) that increase with the support spell levels (with another support spell the panda increase charges and a characteristic). as an earth pandawa instead it takes you 1 turns to put down the barrel and to carry it then the earth pandawa have good damage, nice mobility, +dmg% +crit% +dodge with charges consumption, -res% to the enemy though they are buffed with +dmg%.

- the osa can summon a mob with 3ap 1wp and can attack in the same turn. the cost/profit of this spell is really good even at lvl 0.

- the core abiltiy of the sadida is "structured" like the one of the feca imho: not a single strong feat but few of weaker feats (except for the sadida's totem), more than 6 dolls for the sadida because of the +wp - ini bonus. actually the sadida is a little broken like the feca because of the +hp% of the dolls but the sadida to benefit at max from a doll need only the doll spell (sadida savoir-faire is useful but there are also +command items so it's not really required early on).

so why not a spell that has the same bonus as goa and feca master together and with a lower base cost?
(maybe not the +mechanics bonus)

about auras what's the problem of op?
i suggested a non stackable bonus that is a third or half of the original support (usually those bonus doesn't exceed 40%). the shape of the bonus is a cross like inti aura or absorption.


P.S. i'm really sorry for the bad grammar but english isn't my main language and i'm still studying it.


This post has been edited by prespicboy - January 30, 2012, 10:41:07.

So what you are saying is basically that they should lower the AP cost of GoA, so that you don't need 6 lvls (45 points) in it before you can cast most of your stuff in one turn. That may be good and would go well with my suggestion about losing LoS need as a high lvl bonus. I still don't think merging the two is a good idea. Most of the classes have 2 or more skills for the basic attributes of their specialty/summons. I we were to merge something, look at the Osa who has 3: Gobgob(+types), Gobup(+HP) and Animal Blessing(+leadership). Now thats costly to lvl.
(Side note: The Osa summoning is so cheap because they can die.)

If you don't include the mechanics bonus in the merged skill, where would you put it? But now that you mention it... Its not necessarily a bad idea. Things like mechanics, leadership and their corresponding dmg bonuses could all be available for purchase from ability points. (refer to 1st post) Though I have to say that the current system for mech/lead is good for most of the classes (Osa may need a merge of skills).

About auras. I meant they would be either OP or useless for most of the other classes. They are good for Feca because of its flanking position, and I think they should have more range too (1 to 3, see 1st post). For other classes (like Iop) its use is questionable, its unnecessary and doesn't fit with their theme or role (that last one is subjective of course).

i know that i sound stubborn but it's only for the good of poor fecas XD and Szega i admit that i found this conversation interesting (even if it lead anywhere).

merging skill with bonus in other skills is already used in other classes too.
-pandawa have charges for barrel + lock bonus.
-sadida has leadership + damage redirected on totem (probably this is useless because last time i've tried the dolls don't attack the totem so it's not worth to level both totem and dolls).
-osamodas has +lock(for summons) and leadership.

i was considering the effectiveness/cost of the spells, all the support spells of the osa are summon-centric but not required in a build. is an osa with the only gob up spell effective? yes it is (with my earth osa lvl 20 i can deal 60+ damage, with curve and the summon attack).
is the feca with the only goa spell effective? no (or at least a fire one yes but i've tried it in the previous version i dunno if i can kill a mob of the same level of the feca with 18 charges right now, 6glyphs with 3 charges each).
is the summon of an osa comparable to a glyph/armor of the feca? no (as i've already stated the feca's ability is more like the sadida's one and the sadida to fully benefit from it need only 1 skill).

also 15 armors and 15 glyphs are too much and some are useless. i suggest to decrease the amount to 3 per element in that way: earth/water/fire offensive armor (casted on enemy), earth/water/fire defensive armor (casted on themselves or ally), earth/water defensive glyphs, fire offensive glyph.
it's more like the sadida and allows the feca to cast a glyph or armor with the lowest ap effort.

for example:
earth defensive armor: stabilize/+dodge/+lock
water defensive armor: resist damage/+mp on hp loss
fire defensive armor: deflect damage/+ap on hp loss

earth offensive armor: ap/mp damage
water offensive armor: -resist damage
fire offensive armor: start of the turn damage

earth glyph (defensive): +resist/damage to enemies in close combat
water glyph (defensive): start of the turn heal/states resistence%
fire glyph (offensive): damage/ % to apply blindness state

And Feca fits in that sequence all right: mechanics + other bonus(plate/charge)



I actually like that idea. Although it needs more thought, and has to be balanced.
- What would the other spells do that would warrant leveling them? At least a simple push would be appreciated (but maybe such a capability was left out on purpose). Maybe their effect could vary depending on the glyph/armor effects on the target.
- Should the Glyph/Armor spells have a "normal" effect? I think they have them now so that leveling them can work the same way as other spells. Having a regular effect is ok, but one should be able to level a spell by using it as glyph/armor.
- Having separate Natural, Meteor and Volcano Glyphs is good, and I think we should keep them somehow. Maybe 2glyph+2armor+1other in every element? Or different setups for the 3 elements?

And another thought: I really miss a -MP glyph (Mud Glyph?).

my concern was exactly about that: there aren't enough plates in goa and too much in feca master, i've suggested to merge the skills (without +mech) because the support spells of other classes that i mentioned have one stat that is needed by the main ability of the class while the other stat is a characteristic, in the feca case both of the bonus from feca master are needed for his main ability.
maybe adding a few plates in goa and removing some from feca master we have more balanced supports.


i'm thinking about a way to improve my idea of armors and glyphs, suggestions are welcome.

i a multiple element feca ~ focus on fire ( volcano amor )

people always cursed me due to fire glyph effect:

scram clon boom build: hate me because their clone always boom before reaching the target if i locked the mob with glyph...

others: hate me because they die because of my skill.

.........................................................................................................................

so if i wanted to be in party, i need to use my water or earth skill. but for what reason to buff them if the buff make no different.

some other buff pretty useless,

earth spell for return damage/counter att, why not change it for return % of damage received rather then fix damage deal after getting hit ??? the fix damage really low. if they change into % damage, feca might be more useful in term of protectors....
my suggestion: fecablade glyph effect change to % damage reflect, so any other support class like Enu will be well protected. fecammer n fecablade effect almost same if applied on Enu or almost dead party member, i believe they wont die ^^

about water skill: it feel useless to gain +lock or + initia for glyph water spell effect, seriously it better to having, increase % of heal or % dodge...or better having % of damage ( with this buff, i believe people will love feca )

fire: strongest debuff on feca ( amor ) really good for me, but glyph fire...people hate me...

I totally agree that feca needs early level buffs.

I have no clue what is it like to play a 100 level feca, but that isnt the point. It takes ages to level up to 100. The early game should be fun, not annoying.

I'v noticed that there is no point to use glyphs during the early levels. It takes two turns to activate a glyph and it protects 2-5 damage. I could deal 20 damage with defensive orb instead. The glyph should cost like 3 AP 1 WP at beginning and during levels it should lower.

EDIT:
And yeah, the use of glyph/armor bonuses should be buffed. For example Drip is stupid to use. It doesnt protect anything and its just too expensive to use. Same with ALL THE GLYPH AND ARMOR SPELLS. It takes multiple turns to active and it doesnt do anything.

- Kossad


This post has been edited by Serpus - February 04, 2012, 10:14:38.