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Enutrof Improvement Ideas Hello everyone. I've been playing as an Enutrof for a while and I'd like to leave some thoughts about this class. My main branch is earth but since Enutrof has not changed much since open beta, I'd like to add my personal ideas and suggestions to water and fire branches.

I know this topic will not be read by any dev since they have a lot of work to do (work on new bugs and rollbacks, leave glitched Fecas around and make Totem Sadidas useless, that's what they did after their last month of work). I am yet being stubborn and leaving my ideas around, since from what I heard Tot's next victim may be the Enutrof.

• Mine Mover: this spell now does not replace the moved mine by a gold mine because I am giving mines a specific bonus. It costs 1 MP at all levels in order to make it useful even if not leveled, the only stat that rises is range which is fixed. At level 9 the spell does not require line of sight to be cast.

• Clumsiness: it replaces mass clumsiness. Takes an MP and reduces Lock.

1. It costs 1 MP at all levels.
2. 1(5) Range, cannot be increased.
3. Between level 1 and 5 it requires line of sight. From 5 to 9 it doesn't require line of sight.
4. Effects: -1 MP (100%), -5(20) Lock.
5. 1 Cast per target per turn. 3 Casts per turn.

• Prime of Life: this is a very exemplar spell. I do not think it needs any changes at all. I however would replace one of it's effects by another in order to give Enutrofs a better dodging ability.

1. 8(75)% chance of converting MP loss into gain.
2. +10(50) Dodge.
3. +1(2) MP.

• Treasure Tracker: this is not a bad spell at all. It gives Enutrofs a good advantage for wearing prospecting items, most people think that this spell is useless because of the recent nerf. It is not useless however.

• Geology: the mines have specific effects now. Mine Mover made it too easy to replace a mine by a gold one, making any mine beside Gold useless. The spell spawns 1(6) Iron Mines, 1(6) Ruby Mines and 1(6) Manganese Mines around the map.

1. Iron Mine: +45% chance to reduce MP, +10% critical hits.
2. Ruby Mine: +45% chance of applying Broke. +3 Levels of Treasure Hunter.
3. Manganese Mine: 30% final damage to fire spells, +1 Range.

• God Enutrof's Blessing: this spell needs seriously better effects. There we go.

1. +0(20)% chance of applying Broke.
2. +1(10) Willpower.

• Faking It:

1. If HP is under 10%: 0(60)% chance to Feign a KO.
2. If standing on a Mine: 30(90)% chance to Feign a KO.
3. If a KO is feigned: heals 5(25)% of HP.

Note: please add an animation to that spell (I don't even think there is one, never really leveled it).



Ranged fighter. Fights like a ranged Iop - no more words to say. This build is the most common but it's also broken. The water spells have nothing special besides pouching bags. I'd like to see a better purpose in this branch since after they took prospecting away from abilities list any Enutrof build can pouch any monster as long as he stands on a mine.

Cutting: this is one of the useless water spells. It has no special effects beside Broke, no special damage. My idea is to restrict the pouching ability to only this spell, so it is not going to be easy anymore to pouch mobs and Enutrofs will start using the Dodge ability more often. Collected bags now give 5 Prospecting.

1. 3 AP. 1 Range.
2. 2(40) water damage. 4(60) on critical hit.
3. 30(60)% chance of applying Broke, 50(100)% chance on critical hit.
4. If Broke: -5(50) Lock.
5. Bags can be pouched in PVP, no item loss granted. It's only to make it possible for water Enutrofs to get bonuses/healing from bags in PvP.

Rascalry: this spell is quite strong for it's AP cost. I have nothing bad to say about this spell really. I am replacing Broke State by MP loss though, since I am going to leave Cutting as a main way of pouching bags. This is not to destroy the build, on the contrary, it's to make Cutting a good spell and yet leave Rascalry useful for damage purpose.

1. 2 AP, 1 MP. 2 to 5 range.
2. 4(31) water damage. 6(48) on critical hits.
3. If Broke: 5(35)% chance of inflicting 1 MP loss.

Purge: this spell now has better chances of increasing the size of a bag. Bigger bags have increased drop rates and gives 10 Prospecting for whoever collects it.

1. 2 AP, 2 to 4 Range. Does not require line of sight.
2. 100% Chance of making a bag bigger.
3. 100% Chance of exploding big bags.
4. Big Bag explosion heals all allies in a circular area of effect of size 2 by 5(40) HP.
5. 1(18) water damage.

Tax: that's a very good spell. Does nice damage to Broke Targets. There is no need to change it.


Refinement: this spell breaks an item and does quite good damage. I'd however change several characteristics to restrict it's use.

1. 4 AP. 1 MP. 1-3 Range. Linear.
2. Deals 5(65) water damage to targets.
3. Breaks an Item. PVP: breaks the carrying Shield, Weapon or Breastplate for the duration of the combat (bonuses reduced by 50%).
4. Deals 4(50) water damage to Broke targets.

The Earth path provides uncommon strength to old people like Enutrofs. The damage done by certain spells like Deadly Nightspade is certainly high compared to most classes, 1-6 range spell with 44 damage and yet 25(75 mine)% chance of reducing the MP by one. It's my main spell along with Shovel Shaker. This build needs some changes though.

Killer Spade: this is one spell I would level if I had the time to. It has low AP cost and still deals average earth damage - not a Deadly Nighspade though.

1. 3 AP, 1-3 Range. 3(37) damage.
2. Zerker mode: 3 MP, 1-1 range. 3(40) damage.

Deadly Nightspade: one of the bests spells. Range rises every 50 levels, good damage and yet MP loss.

1. 3 AP, 1 MP. 4(6) Range. 3(44) damage. 5(25)% chance of reducing MP by 1.
2. Zerker mode: 4 MP, 1-1 range. 4(40) damage, 10(50)% chance of reducing MP by 1.

Shovel Kiss: that is a good spell but it's use is very difficult due to the fact it requires a straight line to be cast. I am trying to modify this spell in order to not make Deadly Nightspade still a better option for ranged damage when not in zerker form.

1. 4 AP, 2-4 Range. Deals 4(50) earth damage. Still gives accelerated state.
2. Zerker mode: 4 AP, 1-4 range linear. Deals 4(46) earth damage, -5(30) Lock.

Shady Shovel: good spell. I am going to make it's use easier without being in zerker mode though.

1. 2 AP, 1 MP. 3(35) damage, 6(42) on critical hits. Steals 1 MP.
2. Zerker mode: 5 MP, 5(66) damage, 7(99) CH. Steals 1 MP. 1 cast per target per turn.
3. Use: whoever comes in CC will end up with low movement points. Do not CC old people.

Shovel Shaker: a really good spell, doesn't really have to be changed. I just want you to fix that damn annoying bug that hurts Drheller.



Fusion: that is a very good spell. Doesn't really have to be changed.


Meteor: another spell that has it's uses. A range that could be increased would be more than enough!

Ember: I believe that the main problem of this spell is that Burning has only 100 levels. Meaning that at level 100, you'll mostly use this spell once in order to just apply the burning state. I still do not think it needs to be changed though.


Firedamp Explosion: as you may have noticed, I believe the fire branch is the most balanced. This spell should not be changed! Oh, I'd be nice if the range could be increased.

Hot Magma: this is a very good spell. I do intend to change it though! Not because it is too strong or too weak, but because Enutrofs do need some special skill related to mines, and I am giving it by changing Hot Magma effects. The new version will then suit better it's description.

The new Hot Magma does not do much damage as the old one, not if you don't aim for the mines!

1. 0 range, circular area of effect of size 5.
2. 5 AP 1 WP.
3. A Volcano is summoned on every mine inside the area of effect.
4. Volcanos will do 5(60) in a circular area of effect of size 2.
5. Volcanos last until the end of the turn, if attacked they do damage again.

That is it. Thanks for reading!

Post your comments!


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - May 14, 2012, 23:13:18.

only if god enu bless, random loot like haven gem back in time of beta stage (before release of rogue in beta) so it will be good.... 

The only fitting change for now is.

Water :

Rascalry : Cost 3 Ap 1 MP instead.

The damage is too high and even though you set it at 2 Ap 1 MP, the spammability will make it lolop anyway. A move that can be easily used 3-4x per turn SHOULD NOT deal insane damage if it's a ranged move.

Tax : Cost 6 AP or reduce damage.

IT deals 16.6 damage/AP ratio on "broke" target. It's a water move yet deal as much or more damage than fire move? Even when the target is not "broke", it still deal high damage anyway.

When it comes to damage, this is how it should be : Refinement > Tax > Rascalry > Cutting > Purge.

Refinement is good now
Tax needs a 20% nerf
Rascalry needs more AP cost
Cutting is good
Purge is good.

Earth is as good as it though Deadly Nightspade is leaning toward op.

Fire only needs Hot Magma damage reduction and an increase on Mine portion.

The specials are as good as it is except for "Faking it". Enu weakness is close range combat (Even in Drhellzerker form. If you cannot run around to get extra damage, you're gonna lose some damage). Suddenly giving option to create a "get out of jail free" card for an Enu only spells "broken."

Enu is already OP. Don't make it broken. It needed a nerf, not a buff.

Nyeheh~


This post has been edited by Zeitzbach - May 15, 2012, 06:35:53.

Have to disagree, Tax is extremely hard to combo, I would be much happier if it was 4ap and lower damage than what it currently is.

I would also suggest the complete removal of Faking It with the introduction of Clumsiness you suggested.

I like the idea of the map travel spell, this would prove very useful, the dhreller needs a large buff on its chance of digging a mine 12% is way too low, especially if you are a fire enu who needs to shift mines around the map constantly.

I do not like your idea about the mines, the mines themselves are dependent on the type of enu you are. For fire enus the type of mine is completely irrelevant although the move of the mine automatically constitutes a gold mine. The mines need little to no change. Also fire enus are fine as they are, I see no problem with the damage they deal. Fire enus require a lot of planning to their attacks, I see that as the handicap which prevents them from overpowering.

@Zeitzbach Why do you seem to want to quash enus, the damage we deal is perfectly reasonable, non of our spell damage needs changing. If rascalry cost 3ap it would crush any chance of a water enu providing anything to the battle other than being a drop mule.You should know for a fact it is not overpowered. Play the class before you respond, then you will fully understand the effect of the changes you are trying to implement.

And I did.

Dealing Xelor damage on a lootmonger is completely reasonable indeed.

Considering how I always play a tank dragon anyway, my Enu mule can easily deal damage without getting hit while standing on the gold mine.

And that mule is capable of dealing nearly 300 damage per turns at lv 63 while wearing PP gears as long as she stand on Gold mine and one button rascalry like a pro while making 600-700 kama an hour. REASONABLE INDEED.

You can't say "You always have tank" because Water Enu is not for solo play anyway so that's not a valid excuse because everyone knows a good party always have at least one tank and one healer.

And even if it costs 3 AP, Rascalry still deals great damage. It just forces you to use Tax now after the target is "broke" and not just cast Rascalry nonstop. Rascalry outdamages Tax so what's the point of casting tax when Rascalry is easier to use, spammable, deals more damage and has nearly same range?

And tax is hard to combo? Not really. Refinement/Rascalry spam till broke. Now, spam tax with 10 AP. It's only "hard to combo" because "Rascalry x 3-4 exists" so what's the point of using Tax when there's an easy modo button right there for you?

nyeheh~

Can you deliver a proof for that? Well, it can be possible on a gold mine and if attack was performed from behind, but some proof would be nice. And:

• You wil not always be standing on a gold mine in a dungeon, or pvp. Your allies will be blocking your way, or standing on your mine. Sometimes it's really hard to get to a gold mine, since drheller has ridiculos chance to dig up a mine.
• It always takes mp to make a gold mine, which are also needed for rascalry. You very rarely start your fight on a mine, and sometimes even near a mine (on large maps), and some fights you spend without a mine at all, which makes enu's damage laughable.
• Even if you're dealing that "nearly 300" damage per turn sometimes, do you think it's a lot? Some classes are able to do that, and even aoe, without bothering about things like mines at all.

So for you it's a valid excuse to nerf a class? "They are not for solo play anyway". Awesome logic, bro!


Another sentence that just made me laugh. I was in party with Xelors and other damage dealers while wearing my full PP set to actually be a lootmonger after that patch that removed PP. And I have full chance build, and damage from spamming rascalry was not even close to the damage of those classes. Not to say it was even lower than water eni's damage, who is supposed to be a support class more than someone else in this game.


Hello, sir, are you serious? It's hard to combo Tax with anything because it takes at least 7 AP to cast something with it. And one rascalry shot doesn't garantee you a broke status, while Tax delivers good damage only when the target is broke. But still for 7 AP it's better to use tax+rascalry, while for 6 AP it's better to 3xRascalry. It's a matter of spent AP and damage, and I see perfect balance in that.


In my opinion, water enus have good balance damage-wise. It's support abilities that need some revision and improvement.

@topic-starter I didn't like most of your suggested changes, in fact it was hard to even read all of it, because you're trying to change almost everything, while there's no real need in this and just make it seem that you want to adjust a class to your personal taste. I'm still doing my calculations and elaborating my thoughts to suggest something myself though - don't want to make hasty and destructive suggestions like Zeitzbach.

Click here

86*3 (258) from attacking at side (My enu was right behind the profile so it's a side attack from there) at monks. If you want to see a 300, I can go backstab a wild gob for an easy screenie now (Not to mention I switched to Noke cloak and actually equip a weapon now for more damage since I got to 66 on it for even more damage).



Nyeheh~

Of course, because there are only 2. Run crobak dungeon as enu with 6 people then talk.


You see, it's not even 300. But (surprise!) enus are not the only class that deal more damage from back and from side.


So MP is nothing for you? It's stil a costly point. 4 Rascalry means 4 MP which means you're standing still and not moving at all at your turn. And you show it as an advantage. And about temporal burn - you forgot about bonus damage from initiative loss.



Dealing a lot of damage from behind on a critical hit is something only Enutrofs can do, yeah.



Backstab here, backstab there. How is it related to enus? Every class can be a DD when there's a supporting second-client character for them. I wanna see why enus are OP, and you write that you can deal a lot of damage from behind on lvl 95. Bravo!



Reread my message and learn math.

The fact that you ignore and cut off all the related part on a single paragraph and only cherrypick the part that can used to support your arguement doesn't really surprise me. Finding your ground by misintrepeting my posts because you decide the best way to counter is by taking it out of context?

K.

1st stage of Kubler-Ross

Denial - You are denying my points simply because you main Enutrof so your precious char must only be buffed or left as it is, not nerfed.




-Totally ignoring the part that said person can make it 300 by simply changing place and backstab but is not doing so because he was earning lots of kama.




Obviously my Eni friend doesn't count as a person even though he had been mentioned so many time . He must be a ghost.




Oh someone is tanking for you. Let's move up and down every turn for no reason before attacking every turn then even though you are standing on a mine. Too good.




-Plays an Enu,
-Builds poorly with all chance.
-Think his build is already good and can be used as an example.
-When his build ended up dealing too low damage, consider the class damage reasonable and balance.

K




-See the high damage.
-Deny it saying it's a backstab eventhough it's part of the other person build at lv 95 that allows him to deal great damage and get loots at the same time.
-Ignore the fact that Enu damage will be lower since zombie heal doesn't backstab.

K




Reread ALL of my posts and learn math + reading comprehension.

Shall we have a stage 2 next?

Nyeheh~

Nah, I've already spent too much time on such irrelevant person that you are. And it seems that you argue only for the sake or argument.




I can only hope that people in Ankama are smarter than you.

Rascalry is quite balanced if you ask me, we have a 12,5 damage per AP ratio as a 'pattern', I can't remember exactly the stated damage per MP, but for sure it is higher than 12,5, so let's say 16. 25+16 = 41, is it ranged? Then drop it to 35. It is fine as it is, you might be pissed because Osas are not as good in damage dealing as Enutrofs are, in fact the Osamodas Class needs a fully remake as soon as possible because as far as I know, and as far I can see, almost every osa is forced, I repeat, is forced to use whip, because it's clear that this spell has been overbuffed since OB.


Anyways, Osamodas are not the main point here.

@CharlieBlau


I understand your points, I may have changed way too much the class but in fact, all I wanted to do was reduce their 'pp mule' ability as much as possible. I think the pouch idea is fine, as long as it remains restricted to Cutting, making it slightly more difficult to cast.

The water branch deals more direct damage, a level 100 water enu in a 10 AP setup can easily do 450+450 damage on double Tax, which is high, however, you have to make this enemy Broke and stand on a mine to reach that damage output. I personally wanted to change the water branch more because all they do now is damage, nothing too strategic I dare say, they just play as a ranged iop. I wanted to see the water enu with better support abilities, maybe even the ability of transforming inanimate bags into living bags, that would be cool.

I just hope they nerf as much as they can the 'mules', I want to see real Enutrofs in play. The ones that are good, require strategy and yet have certain advantage over other classes in drop - not a huge advantage like before.


I am looking forward to see your ideas so we can discuss it, I wanted to make several changes in this topic as I've had some new ideas.



Faking It: could be changed to Living Bag, that passive would allow the Enutrof to have 100% chance of making small bags into bigger ones, and if purge is used again, it becomes a living bag.

The Living Bag could work in many different ways, I myself have several ideas for this mechanic (not a summon). Ah! And in order to make it easier, I think Purge should cost 1 AP 1 MP and have a cast limit per target per turn, 2~3 would be ok. It'd be also easier to do combos in early game with Tax.

• +1~2 Mechanics
• +5(25)% chance of turning a small bag into a big bag.
• 100% chance of turning a Big Bag into a Living Bag.
• Bigger Bags: give better loot.
• Living Bag:

1. Heals upon damage. It'd have a % of Enutrof's HP and every damage dealt would result in healing of the attacker, just like Tree of Life from Dofus.
2. Other idea is make it a Loot Eater, in that case it would have to be a summon instead of a mechanic and Faking It would give + summon instead of mechanic. The Bag would try to eat every single bag you pouch in the map, growing bigger and bigger, when killed it gives prospecting to allies for one turn.
3. Another idea is to make the bag heal adjacent allies when attacked.

Just random thoughts, I am still up to nerf the pouching ability and leave cutting as the only way to do it.


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - May 23, 2012, 17:58:12.

Stage 2 - Anger

Once in the second stage, the individual recognizes that denial cannot continue. Because of anger, the person is very difficult to care for due to misplaced feelings of rage and envy.

Oh and here's a bonus.

Tested on wild gob

104 per hit
*3

Oh and guess what, Zeitz-sama will change his Enu build to 8 AP later.

What's 104*4?

416! Reasonable damage indeed. This is exactly almost the same damage that a sac with 400% on fire was dealing at that time we were grinding at Wild gob in a party of 5 and he was lv 85. I CAN DEAL HIS DAMAGE AT LV 67 BY SIMPLY GETTING 8 AP? AND GET LOOTS AT THE SAME TIME? AWSHUM. (and reasonable indeed)

Nyeheh~

That's too much Drama. You're comparing a weak ranged class that has no way of defending themselves in close combat to a high-hp tanking class that gets stronger the less HP they have.





However... if you really want to compare:

A level 85 Enutrof, who sadly has only leveled Rascalry (80), all other abilities are at lv 35-40. Lack of mobility, only got Prime of Life for that, meaning that or he attacks or he runs. If combat training is levelled, Drheller can barely take 2 MP while doing any damage. Has no ways of avoiding Death, (Faking It - but you will probably not have leveled it by level 85).

Damage Bonus from spells: 92%~
Full Starry Set: +99% damage
Nun Scythe: +30% damage
Treasure Tracker: +14%
Noke's Necklace: +10% damge
Woolly Epp: +16%
Black Crow Ring: +14%
Stats: +68%

--------------------------------
Total: 343%, let's make it 350%.


Raw damage:

• Rascalry: -126, 4x. Unable to move. Unless if you use 1 WP.

After getting 40% damage bonus from treasure Hunter.

• Rascalry: -137, 4x. Unable to move. Unless if you use 1 WP.

Standing on a mine plus 40% from hunter.

• Rascalry: -154, 4x. Unable to move. Unless if you use 1 WP.

Damage in a fight: 506 to 616, very difficult to cast in CC if you don't have any dodge. Unreliable in PvP, weak.


Sacrier at 85.


Sacrier with 350% Fire, 30% more health than the Enutrof. Sanguine Armor adds a shield, clinking life grants immunity for one turn, moribund grants damage bonus. Has quite good mobility. Punishment at lvl 80. Bloodthirsty Fury at lv 50.

• Punishment + Bloodthirsty Fury: -386 or -627.
• Moribund +20%: -403 or 657.
• Muribund +40%: -427 or 685.

Conclusion: the Enutrof has no chance as he only does damage, doesn't have any decent support/mobility skill, weak in close combat. The Enu would definitely die against that Sacrier.

The fact Rascalry has higher damage per ap/mp ratio than most spells does not mean Enutrofs are overpowered. The lack of useful support abilities and drop mule oriented skills definitely make this class weak and difficult to play. The enu would die against a vacuum whipper osamodas, or a fire sac, or a glitched feca, or a full time invisible sram, or a damage dealer healer, or against iops, pandas, I dare say against a rogue.

The only builds that have some advantage in PvP are Earth and Fire. Despite of having spells that do less damage than water ones, they have better support abilities and flexibility with their spells, that's the key. It's not all about damage.

What makes Tax good? It doesn't cost any MP, you can attack and run while not standing up as an attacking tower, an enu with tax levelled would have slightly better chance of winning that fight.
Also, if the Enu is smart enough, he'd have spent some points into dodge as it is quite useful (I myself have 170 Dodge, planning on having 220 once they let me reset stats) - Less damage, more mobility. Even Clumsiness can be useful, as you can get extra dodge and extra MP (PoL) just to avoid close combat, sadly you can't do that much as the combo costs 2 WP.

A real enu that does not rely on allies to do damage would not spam Rascalry the whole fight as it would consequently lead all enemies close to him. It is useful attacking with that spell all the time only if you have someone to distract your enemies, another reason why a solo chance Enu would eventually level combat Training, the problem is that the points for that are scarce, so I'd just stick to Rascalry + Tax until they balance this class.


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - May 23, 2012, 18:53:36.

@Niddhogy,



But ..why? I think it will be a lot harder to handle actually, because water enus don't have means for close combat. And they don't have escaping or pushing enemies back skills either.

In my opininon we must consider the way that game designers see this class. The best description - is the one that is given in the book in the very beginning of the game:
"Water spells will cause certain items to drop from the adversary during battle for Enutrof to pick up. Once Broke, the target will become vulnerable to the secondary effects of Water spells"

But in fact there's only one effect - increased damage from tax and it's not very impressive, Maybe it's a good idea to think in the direction of the secondary effects.

This is a TEAM GAME. Comparing it via a 1 v 1 is not great at all.

Also, Fire Sac and Water Xelor are quite broken in 1 v 1 since getting hit twice by punisher is nearly enough to guarantee a kill and with clinging to life, you WILL hit someone twice with it. Being able to shut down the opponent with a -4 AP is also quite broken because Hyperactive doesn't really do anything at the moment. You can't compare anything in a 1 v 1 as long as those two still stands.

And we cannot forget about Feca bug abusers, the current spell exp system and how Ini is too good at the moment.

And if you want an effective build on an Enu, here's a better way to build one for comparison.

1. Don't go full water gear on a water enu. Go water + PP gear or PP + damage gears. You get damage on water/all element in great amount along with the amount of damage from PP bonus. This is how you build something that is actually flexible and deal great damage on lots of element so you can bypass elemental resistance on monsters and players.

2. Do not leave spells at 35-40. IF you want to leave it at a certain point for free stat, 50-55 is the best point since a single level from lv 79-80 is enough to get 6-7 levels on mid level spells. It's better to get 2% damage and 1% resist instead of +0.25 damage or something that won't be in effect.

3. The 4 Elemental stats are pretty bad to begin with as you reach the soft cap with gears and element bonus already. Getting them is like adding more icing on a cake. Is good but not great at all and will make you sick later on which can result in death.

If you want to deal one heck of a damage, go Crit. An Enu can easily cast Rascalry 4 times per turn. Getting 25 Crit is almost the same as guaranteeing that one Rascalry will crit so treat it as if 4.5 Rascalry is being casted per turn. Which is better? Dealing 5-6% damage more on 4 rascalry for 4.2 rascalry total in damage or getting another 0.5 rascalry for 4.5 rascalry damage in total with a chance that you might end up dealing up to 6 Rascalry in one turn?

You already have a damage steriod that can easily grant you +150% damage to all element by simply getting PP gears (I have 130 by default. Combined with mine and +100 PP, that's a 60 + (230*0.4) = 152%)

4. Getting + range is awesome. Try having a taste of an 8-cell range Rascalry and you will understand. (+1 range headgear like Crobak Monacle, +1 range from stat and +1 range from Makabra wand. Now, go stand on a gold mine. I feel like playing a Cra with insane single target snipe damage there.) Getting range is how you deal with the "Can't stand on mine and deal damage on same turn because enemies are too far away" problem.

5. For PvE, get some resist which already comes with PP gears. Monsters have high base but low % damage so getting resist will have a huge impact on PvE. Heck, I have people calling my dragon osa build stupid because I deal moderate damage but by simply right click and spectate their fight, I laugh when they die to a group of 2-3 ghouls when I can easily solo them with ease.

And as I have stated, this is a team game. With a tanker, the Enu doesn't have to move at all and can simply shoot non-stop while standing on his mine. This removes the close range combat weakness from PvE and somewhat in PvP unless the opponent is willing to use lock-escape moves but in the current stage, if you stop dealing damage even for one turn, you lose immediately unless you're playing a very strong class with very strong gears.

If you get some resist gears (Which comes with PP gears like RAGPLATE for all elements or FRENCH MAID for ghouls and earth stuffs. Heated ring and stuffs are also there if you can get one for PP (which gives more damage due to passive) , damage AND resist), your Derpheller WILL be one heck of a tank in PvE. The only problem is that monsters will often escape lock anyway but this comes with the technic called "AI MANIPULATION", something I always use to make sure the monsters will walk into the Tanker lock cells anyway by simply summoning the derpheller on one of their move range so they will have to step to the side.

So by being in a team, you pretty much nearly shutdown your weaknesses in PvE while somewhat covering for it in PvP.

And how to lose to an Osa in a 1 v 1? Sure they can pull you with bat but that's why you block your front with your Derpheller. This way, they will have to pull from the side and without the bat covering the LoS now, you can easily Rascalry them to death. You don't even need a mine to outdamage an Osa. The bat is only dealing like.. what? 250 damage per turn with whip? While you're dealing like..what? 430+ per turn? Don't forget that Osa doesn't have innate-water resist and that their air damage is way too weak as well that you cannot use it to exploit the fact that Enu doesn't have air resist.





Water enu is a Loot support class. You are trying to solo on a loot SUPPORT class. This does not mean the class is weak simply because you have trouble when soloing. This means that you are playing the class in an ineffective way.

It's like playing Eni and you're trying to heal everyone with Fire and suddenly ask for a fire heal boost because you're healing less than water.

And no, you have more than enough points unless you are planning on getting PoL, MC and Enu God at the same time. PoL is not cost-efficient, MC sucks and Enu god doesn't really do anything in real combat. I can easily get maxed Treasure, lv 19 Geo, lv 3-4 Mine mover and lv 20 Combat training at lv 80/81 on my lootmonger so why can't you?

Also, nobody get Locks anyway and because they are all building pure damage gear, you don't even need more than 100 dodge to avoid most people unless you are getting it for monsters that can easily be manipulated.

This is called "bad build" not "my class is weak and needs a buff"

Nyeheh~


This post has been edited by Zeitzbach - May 23, 2012, 20:05:40.

Of course it is a team game.

The Enutrofs are broken like most classes in the game and they do need a few updates as it has been stated by Tot in french forums. The class of course has a drop advantage over others, however it is not because of this that they should do minimum damage. Dodge is a must, most do not realize how important it is (all because Enus cannot push). With dodge you will not have to rely on your team mates to save you from dead zones just because you haven't built your character properly, you'll have to get out of this zone by yourself most of the time (due to initiative lines/unexpected issues), this way you won't just waste a friend's AP cost but you also can do better damage without successive dodge roll failures.

I love my build and I reckon the usefulness of Dodge, I can get out of lock zones of 2 Crobaks with a 81% success chance, 95% from one Ghourlmand. It suits me and makes my character good, this stat is probably even more useful for water builds, as the strongest spells (with the exception of Refinement, cannot be cast in close combat). I can see how useful it is a high dodge plus combat training leveled, you run away and your enemy yet loses MP.


As I have stated, my whole prototype is based on most builds that are around the game. I myself would never have spells left at level 30~, I also played the same game as you did in several older posts. Comparing an Enutrof with a Sacrier is no more worse than comparing everyone through a fail PvP perspective. Each class has it's priorities, it's support abilities and damage capability - that does not happen with the water build. The water build only focus on dropping items, their spells don't have any special effect that could support their team. The earth branch is ok, like fire, however some updates would really be welcome - like the Drheller, it doesn't have any earth and water spells. Drheller Claws doesn't go above level 100, which is a mistake considering the planned endgame content that is level 200. Rascalry might even be nerfed, but who cares as long as they manage to introduce a better gameplay. It's quite obvious the fact that Enutrofs are receiving some updates, I only tried to give my ideas, I am no developer, I'm just a player and it's mostly obvious that my balancing suggestion is just that - a suggestion, full of flaws, that in some way can be used by the developers.

However. No, you have to say that the class is overpowered and deals way too much damage, there's no need of a positive review - but a damage nerf. Please, learn how to play in a real team rather than a team of one, two or three people controlling several puppets - that is not a team. I am not going any further of how I find multiclienting something stupid that has been allowed by the greediness and incompetence of Ankama, but it is quite obvious that any class can avoid or exploit certain game mechanics through multi clienting. The ''Real Enutrofs'' I say are the ones that have capability of adapting themselves to many different fighting scenarios, and does not remain stuck to the same repetitive fights.

Critical hits do not happen all the time. Of course it may be better one time or other, but considering the damage loss (because you did not spend points in chance) and the random critical hits, you'll be no better than a full chance. The difference is that one has a fixed damage that does not oscillate, while the critical hit one may do better damage or less damage depending on the luck. I am not saying it's a bad build, it's viable as chance is. It's just not a matter of turning this class overpowered, Enutrofs are far from being overpowered.

And at last, chance Enutrofs can kill monsters on their own. I even believe that if I were chance I'd manage to finish fights faster than as being Earth, since the damage output plus range bonus makes them quite good.

The class needs several updates as many spells are broken, the water build needs the most changes since it's restricted. Hot Magma is fine, they could even drop the damage a little, but it's far from being overpowered like certain class spells we have around. I just do not think they have to nerf Rascalry because it's too strong, they have to change the whole purpose of the water branch even though it it results in a weaker but more supportive build, that's my point here. I am not whining or complaining that the class is too weak, I just want Enutrofs to be more flexible, useful, and not just loot mongers.


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - May 23, 2012, 21:31:58.

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Quote (Niddhoggy @ 23 May 2012 21:20)

Nyeheh~

I am going to be short now since I know I am not getting anywhere, we have different opinions and none of us is going to manage to have a decent discussion if we keep doing like this.

Fusion is way stronger than Hotmagma, if Fire Enus need to be nerfed you should look at Fusion. The damage potential with Fusion leveled at my level ranges from 700 to 900, from 4 range, plus Drheller's Damage, while Hot Magma will do 500's damage, but area of effect. That's why I am so looking forward to become fire once they let us reset spells.

Water branch.

You cannot nerf a branch because you're using it as a support, loot monger or a prospecting mule. You're being selfish leaving players that choose to play this branch more because of it's power rather than just drops, and drops - Oh yeah. The purpose of water branch is not present in game like before. After they've taken the prospecting from stats any branch can benefit from prospecting or pouches, fire, earth or water. Considering that, the only support ability present in water Enutrofs is: allow his owner a better chance of finding loot - it only supports your main character. There's no real support ability like Eniripsas or Pandawas.

A Water Enu that keeps casting Rascalry will use all of his MP or almost all if you have 5, preventing you from walking, this is a 1 shot strategy in pvp. If you cast it all the time there will be a time your enemy will run away or get too close, making dodge essential. My dodge is focused on PvM, It's essential for my build as I like to position myself and benefit from AoE/damage bonus from mp.

Drheller

About Drheller, I am not suggesting it to be extremely mega powerful. It just needs to have little abilities that will support water and earth branch, which have been suggested already. On my opinion Drheller should have better coop spells with the Enutrof. Not damage spell, but cooperation, maybe even pushback, why not?

It could rebound Shaker properly and work differently with each other earth spell. Like Deadly Nightspade, if cast on Drheller all targets surrounding it could lose 3(35) earth damage without MP loss.


Note: Shovel Shaker is not working properly since it hurts the Drheller, generally killing it before it rebounds any damage.



@CharlieBlau


I mean Cutting because it is a close combat spell of which animation resembles a poaching effect. Cutting could then have a lock loss effect on broke target, this way Enutrofs would be able to get out of lock zones by pouching enemies, they've got enough MP to run, pouch, and run back.

However this change would only be good if you change the specialties of all other water spells, change the whole branch and make it work around pouching ability.

• Bags: do not disappear if enemies walk on it. They fall from people in pvp, no item loss granted.
• Cutting: poaches, 40 damage, 3 AP, -10(30) Lock on Broke Targets. Perfect. Now they've got at least one support ability, reducing the lock of an enemy sometimes will save lives when you do not have a Sacri available to support your team.

• Purge: 1 AP 1 MP, 18 water damage. 2 casts per target limit.

1. 100% chance of turning a small bag into a big one (Faking it leveled)
2. 100% chance of turning big bags into living bags (if mechanic is available)
3. Living Bag: heals upon attack, life based on Enutrof's health (increased by Faking it). The healing is restricted to surrounding targets.

• Tax: distributes 30(70)% of the damage dealt as healing to adjacent allies. Basically works like Drain, but restricted to adjacent allies. It cannot heal the Enutrof, only allies, can be helpful in PvP. It deals now 62 damage if not broke, 77 if broke.

• Refinement: 4 AP, 1 MP cost, 65 damage, 1-3 range. Reduces close combat damage on targets that are not broke by 20(50)%, adds broke state. This way they can reduce close combat damage up to 50% but only once per target in a fight.

• Rascalry: weather change it to 3 AP 1 MP (48 damage) or reduce it's damage to 30. No special bonus, just a damage spell.

• Drheller:

1. Shovel Shaker: rebounds damage properly.
2. Deadly Nightpade: if cast on Drheller, does 3(35) earth damage to all surrounding targets.
3. Furrowing: as I said, 1 WP, 100% chance, heal based in chance.
4. Rock Den: as I said, teleport.
5. Collecting: it should work as Karchamrak, the Drheller grabs the bag, if the spell is cast again it lays it down. Good for positioning bags in battle in order to stack Power State or turn them into living bags.

Just thoughts. Of course it's not balanced, but that's my idea, I am sure a developer could adapt it to the game (or I am not, considering the recent class changes...).


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - May 24, 2012, 00:39:47.

Charlie, he is not worth arguing with, he is just bitter that his damage is lower. I also think osas are lucky, they can have effectively a 3000 health points and conduct rather large amounts of damage. High level osas with fat borbat can do around 250 a turn with the additional damage of a borbat, who has high lock dodge and resistance. If osas did high damage and was able to summon things of this power then they would be ridiculously overpowered.

My enu hits around 89 when stood on a mine and the target is facing me, around 140 on a crit and 105-6 on back stab damage.

I am stuck in the same spot with no means of push back.

Definitely like the living bag idea @Niddhoggy. Would chuck in a mechanic point for that. It could be possible that rather than having the dhreller picking up the bags the living bag could do this, the items collected would be distributed to the enu at the end of the fight.

@That enu telling me to go do Krobak.

I can talk now right? Why get 6 when you can already do it with 3? This dungeon is way too easy that I can even duo it with the Eni on Osa if I want to and heck, the Eni is only wear lv 40 Shark gear. Imagine him running it again in full gears later.




_

I see nothing wrong with the class, only the players. Oh yeh, Mass Clumsiness has potential to be one of the strongest support skill if your team is full of Fire Cra. Just saying.

Nyeheh~


This post has been edited by Zeitzbach - May 27, 2012, 13:20:43.