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The Last Step Left To Go: Water Enu Revamp
Soft Crackler * Member Since 2011-02-02
posté June 29, 2013, 18:28:18 | #1
The Last Step Left To Go: Water Enu Revamp I'd like to post some information and feedback about what could be done to the water Enutrof branch to finally make it balanced like the current earth and fire branches. Feel free to criticize, but be constructive please. Thank you for reading.





 


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - June 29, 2013, 18:51:39.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-05-25
posté June 30, 2013, 01:47:33 | #2
All those changes looks awsome. I can tell i would enjoy using them as water enutrof.


Soft Crackler * Member Since 2011-02-02
posté June 30, 2013, 20:49:05 | #3
I think that there's a really big opportunity to enhance the combat with the help of a Drheller, this could really make the water branch much more interesting to be played rather than the actual mindless glasscannon build we have now

I think that Snowball Throwing should be like Rascalry, 2 per target per turn, as you are going to see, it's a quite powerful spell.


I will try to do some math, I'll start with a level 115 Enutrof.

  • Admihurl Set
  • Celestial Strich Cape, Amulet and Ring
  • Necroforged Ring
  • Makabrards and Tyse Pick
  • Surimi level 50
  • Necroforged Boots

That's a damage gear, 50 pp (30 from tracker plus 20 from nation bonus)

Spell levels:
  • Snow Mound lv. 60: -28 HP
  • Snowball Throwing lv. 80: -32 HP, -38 (Drheller)
  • Snowball Roller lv. 80: -10 HP per cell crossed.
  • Geyser lv 70: -43 HP, -50 (Drheller)
  • Ice Driller lv. 90: -73 HP

Total Damage: 440%, 490% (level 100 Treasure Hunter), 520% (level 100 Treasure Hunter + Gold Mine), 470% (Gold Mine): avarege damage: 480%


AP: 9
MP: 5
Build: +1 AP, +1 Range, +22% CH
CH: 45%
Water Damage (avarege): 480%
Passive: increases maximum damage by 20% with Drheller Combos.
Damage shown in italic are critical hits.

Damage (0% resists)


Snow Mound:
Standard: 162, 243.
Combo: 195, 292.
Snowball Throwing:
Standard: 186, 278.
Combo: 264, 396.
Snowball Roller:
Standard: 58 to 290, 87 to 435.
Combo: 70 to 556, 105 to 835.
Geyser:
Standard: 249, 374.
Combo: 348, 522.
Ice Driller:
Standard: 417, 626.
Combo: 500, 751.

Enemies locking the Enutrof, Drheller beside Enutrof: Snow Mound + Ice Driller
Enemies around the Drheller: Geyser + Snowball Roller
Enemies around the Drheller: Geyser + Snowball Throwing
Enemy between the 2nd and 3rd cell in Drheller's Linear: 2x Snowball Roller
Enemy in distance, 5 range: Snowball Roller 2x
Enemy in distance and Drheller close to enemy: Snowball Roller +2x Snowball Throwing (Drheller)

These are only a few combos that can be done with 9 AP, there are more with 10 or 11 AP :} do your math and please, feedback!

That's it!  


Not so Hairy Moon * Member Since 2012-01-22
posté July 01, 2013, 07:31:28 | #4
These ideas should go towards a new class.


Soft Crackler * Member Since 2011-02-02
posté July 01, 2013, 10:37:25 | #5
@Icekin

I honestly don't see why they shouldn't be added for Enutrofs. The idea needs a Drheller and still gives them a chance of stealing an item. It's all about the names really, if we change the name of the spells to Kamaball, Kama Roller, they'll work the same way but be an 'Enutrof' spell, if that's what you're talking about, that's the least of the problems here

It's not because it's a treasure hunter class that one of the branches should be ignored due to the drop machine related mechanics, Enutrofs are not alts.


Featherless Piwi * Member Since 2013-04-16
posté July 01, 2013, 13:22:35 | #6
hello,

I love this idea and look really fun to play but is this really official or this is just an idea from a fan made? sorry for my ignorance. thanks  


Soft Crackler * Member Since 2011-02-02
posté July 01, 2013, 18:29:16 | #7
@EiYomo


Hello Ey, it's a proposition made by me. Depending on the feedback I can see if I can forward it to the devs though!  


Not so Hairy Moon * Member Since 2012-01-22
posté July 01, 2013, 18:42:10 | #8

Quote (Niddhoggy @ 01 July 2013 10:37) *
@Icekin

I honestly don't see why they shouldn't be added for Enutrofs. The idea needs a Drheller and still gives them a chance of stealing an item. It's all about the names really, if we change the name of the spells to Kamaball, Kama Roller, they'll work the same way but be an 'Enutrof' spell, if that's what you're talking about, that's the least of the problems here

It's not because it's a treasure hunter class that one of the branches should be ignored due to the drop machine related mechanics, Enutrofs are not alts.
Some of your ideas are debatable. Others are really interesting. It's always fun to just imagine new spell ideas and brainstorm possibilities, and even if the suggestions themselves aren't picked up, they could inspire different changes down the line.

The reason I don't think they should apply to Enutrofs is that it would be a very risky attempt to fix something that isn't broken in the least. Enutrofs right now are totally fine. Heck they're in a really good spot, being one of the best classes to have around as a direct damage dealer with great range. Of course they still have a few issues (every class does): Fire is somewhat unpopular (though it's being improved nearly every patch), Refinement/Cutting is of dubious use as a high level spell, and Mass Clumsiness is just as unwanted as it ever was. But these little niggles do not call for such drastic changes.

When you revamp a whole class to that degree, you're forcing a new playstyle on every player of that class. If the class is weak, unpopular and struggling, that's usually not a terrible thing. But if you're trying to improve something that's already good, you might make some people quite unhappy. Let me give you an example: I have a range statted, another on my weapon, and a possible third on my hat. This gives me a 6-7 range on DN and SK, and 4-5 as Drhellzerker. This allows me to hit people at range (diagonally too!) without having to worry about lock. If I am chasing someone who's running, I don't have to go all the way up to them, I can reach them from farther away, saving mp. In your suggested Earth changes, every Drhellzerker spell is fixed at 1 or 2, so my entire playstyle is gone. Shovel Kiss buffing allies as Drhell, giving +mp to self as enutrof, these are also things I use commonly which would be going away.

Would the new skills be better for me? Maybe, maybe not. Therein lies the problem; it would be taking away something I like to replace it with something I might like. With a new class, none of this is a problem.

Of course, I'm not actually worried about anything. I trust Ankama to know better than that, and I'm not suggesting you stop thinking up new ideas either; like I said, you never know when some idea might get picked up and inspire something else. Maybe someone will find the Drheller bounce ideas interesting and implement something similar to possible Fogger changes down the line, for example.


Quote
I love this idea and look really fun to play but is this really official or this is just an idea from a fan made? sorry for my ignorance. thanks

It's fan-made theorizing.


Soft Crackler * Member Since 2011-02-02
posté July 01, 2013, 19:12:34 | #9
@Ice

Oh now you're talking!

I agree with you about the fact that it's difficult to change something that is currently playable too much. I have to admit that I got a little excited with the Earth branch in the other thread, the branch now is balanced though, mainly after the latest change to prime of life. Back before the patch the dodge bonus gave a lot of advantage to backstabbing, which now is somehow balanced. The fire branch is great now if you ask me, it's better than water and in equilibrium with Earth.

The problem is the Water Branch, it does have a really high damage output but the branch playstyle will not be affected if we revamp cutting and refinement, for example, and that shows that the current water branch is not so complex and part of it's power is concentrated in two spells! Mass Clumsiness isn't a bad spell either, but you have to agree that it could be replaced by a better spell.

The Water branch has been nerfed a lot in the latest changes and both, Refinement and Cutting, still remain untouched. Purge costs 2 AP and that really makes an unappealing spell to level due to the fact we already have a spell that costs 2 AP. With the prime of life change the Water branch is even more restricted, since you have to use MP to cast rascalry, this will eventually make the spell not so worthy and people will start using it just to apply broke and then spam double Tax on their enemies The branch is playable but it is not fully playable.

The changes I have provided would make every single spell useful and would reallocate the item stealing ability to a support spell that can still be used in PvP. With the changes Enutrof's are not only a treasure hunter, that role remains in a secondary purpose, the primary goes a gameplay based in our little mole.

And if you take a look, Rascalry is still there as Snowball Throwing, Cutting is still there as Snow Mound. Tax got buffed to a spell that is capable of inflicting AP loss and gaining area of effect damage, (Geyser has 84 base damage if cast on Drheller with Dirty Combat) . The only spells that have really changed were Purge and Refinement, to a better version.

So, the gameplay only got buffed, it hasn't changed that much. Plus now every branch can effectively steal an item directly from a mob.

I am still thinking that there is something missing, maybe the Drheller could buff the prospecting of allies, by giving them levels of Treasure Hunter, this would make the class not so self centered aswell.

Thanks for the feedback!


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - July 01, 2013, 19:14:56.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-12-11
posté July 01, 2013, 22:26:34 | #10

Quote (Icekin @ 01 July 2013 18:42) *

Quote (Niddhoggy @ 01 July 2013 10:37) *
@Icekin

I honestly don't see why they shouldn't be added for Enutrofs. The idea needs a Drheller and still gives them a chance of stealing an item. It's all about the names really, if we change the name of the spells to Kamaball, Kama Roller, they'll work the same way but be an 'Enutrof' spell, if that's what you're talking about, that's the least of the problems here

It's not because it's a treasure hunter class that one of the branches should be ignored due to the drop machine related mechanics, Enutrofs are not alts.
Some of your ideas are debatable. Others are really interesting. It's always fun to just imagine new spell ideas and brainstorm possibilities, and even if the suggestions themselves aren't picked up, they could inspire different changes down the line.

The reason I don't think they should apply to Enutrofs is that it would be a very risky attempt to fix something that isn't broken in the least. Enutrofs right now are totally fine. Heck they're in a really good spot, being one of the best classes to have around as a direct damage dealer with great range. Of course they still have a few issues (every class does): Fire is somewhat unpopular (though it's being improved nearly every patch), Refinement/Cutting is of dubious use as a high level spell, and Mass Clumsiness is just as unwanted as it ever was. But these little niggles do not call for such drastic changes.

When you revamp a whole class to that degree, you're forcing a new playstyle on every player of that class. If the class is weak, unpopular and struggling, that's usually not a terrible thing. But if you're trying to improve something that's already good, you might make some people quite unhappy. Let me give you an example: I have a range statted, another on my weapon, and a possible third on my hat. This gives me a 6-7 range on DN and SK, and 4-5 as Drhellzerker. This allows me to hit people at range (diagonally too!) without having to worry about lock. If I am chasing someone who's running, I don't have to go all the way up to them, I can reach them from farther away, saving mp. In your suggested Earth changes, every Drhellzerker spell is fixed at 1 or 2, so my entire playstyle is gone. Shovel Kiss buffing allies as Drhell, giving +mp to self as enutrof, these are also things I use commonly which would be going away.

Would the new skills be better for me? Maybe, maybe not. Therein lies the problem; it would be taking away something I like to replace it with something I might like. With a new class, none of this is a problem.

Of course, I'm not actually worried about anything. I trust Ankama to know better than that, and I'm not suggesting you stop thinking up new ideas either; like I said, you never know when some idea might get picked up and inspire something else. Maybe someone will find the Drheller bounce ideas interesting and implement something similar to possible Fogger changes down the line, for example.


Quote
I love this idea and look really fun to play but is this really official or this is just an idea from a fan made? sorry for my ignorance. thanks

It's fan-made theorizing.

This^. Very well said.

I like the idea of kama toss etc to keep the theme Enutrof related.

I'd rather see these ideas used for a new class. Maybe it's my mindset but i'm obviously not the only one who thinks so.

I honestly can't tell you why I don't enjoy such detailed revisions for a class.