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Ecaflip Revamp
Tofurby on Diet * Member Since 2012-07-08
posté April 09, 2013, 08:54:53 | #21
When I see the water changes I seriously lol mainly because it is funny to see a healer branch that still has that element if randomness. Gj Ankama lmao


Overweighted Chafer * Member Since 2011-08-14
posté April 09, 2013, 09:13:41 | #22
water eca, water eca... pff at now fire eca and Eath eca get real power!!! XD I remeber all change of ecaflip from OBT. This udapde give more power for eca in all time)))

p.s. Hunter is useless, as a lot of water skills))))


This post has been edited by milordDen - April 09, 2013, 09:18:51.
Ugly Gobball * Member Since 2013-03-08
posté April 09, 2013, 11:06:22 | #23
Please note that this post is my opinion and will probably not change much.

Increasing the mobility of water Ecaflips? Really? As has been pointed out, the number of moves costing Mp in water is far too much to promote something like that in addition to the mediocre changes to our base abilities.

This build would have been much better if the previous build had buffed life-steal amounts and healing that actually applied from the ecaflip to the ally. At least then the person who wanted to get healed could have, instead of a random system of heals that leaves this build more broken than anything.

Of the spells that make sense:

Rough tongue is fine, as it has been.
Up to scratch is interesting, and certainly adds some good damage and mobility to water ecaflips.

Of the spells that don't make sense:
Fleahopper: Needs to be either smart-healing (healing Ally's that have the least amount of health in the spells range) or should heal the ecaflip or ally closest to the target. Hybridizing this spell and allowing it to apply the same effect as fleabag (As a limited turn buff) to a nearby ally if cast on an empty cell (aka protecting an ally if not damaging an enemy) would justify its new cost, making it a smart support choice in battle without overpowering it.
If not hybridized or changed in a positive manner, adding an mp cost to this spell defeats the mobility you said was going to be added to the class, and would make this spell nigh useless in pvp or pvm unless you wanted to hamstring yourself.

Hunter: The cost of this move is the only part of it that doesn't makes sense to me. Every other spell in the water ecaflips arsenal uses a multiple of 2 with the flea love change, so either changing the cost to 2 mp, 2 ap, or 1 mp (while lowering the damage) would make more sense and synergize with the rest of the build, but this spell isn't very high up on my preferential
abilities list.

Flea love: The same problem with flea-hopper also applies to this spell, at least during the fleeches portion.
Starting off with 2 charges is too low without any method of increasing them, which could be added quite simply to flealine army (+0-2 charges from 0-20).
Healing when only damaging an enemy is fine, but a smart-heal system is REQUIRED for this ability to be ANY good at all unless you add a split-heal system in which the fleas split the heal to multiple allies if they are present within the glyph.
In addition, casting this glyph on a group could work better if the fleeches portion was hybridized with fleabag, applying a limited number of allies within the glyph with fleabag for a few turns.
The cost of this spell, should it remain as it is, is almost entirely unjustified, as the ecaflip must now stay near his allies when he wants to heal others with his single most potent spell, but must also stay near his enemies because of the reduced range and limited effect of the fleeches glyph.
A damage buff would have also been nice to the flea love portion, but is offset by the potential to heal others.

The rest of the spells important to water ecaflips, feline leap and flealine army, are getting standard changes to them, and are not being hugely nerfed or buffed (Although the "steal" portion of the flealine army description needs to be changed to "heal" as the spells it affects don't gain damage from the passive, only heals).

Tl: Dr
Rough tongue good, up to scratch good.
Fleahopper slightly broken, hunter mediocre, flea love borked pretty hard with useless fleeches glyph.
Would prefer buffed old spells than new ones because new ones don't let us match eniripsas at all while removing decent tank-support from class.


This post has been edited by Plutosbane - April 09, 2013, 11:28:11.
Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2008-01-09
posté April 09, 2013, 11:31:39 | #24
I like the water changes, this branch seems to have a really interesting spells now, especially Up to scratch and Hunter.
Obviously it's not suppose to be a replacement for Eni, why would anyone even think that? You can't expect Eca to have a heals as good as Eni. It's a secondary, not main healer. Still, healing someone for 78 base heal while doing 78 base dmg is pretty good, isn't it?


Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2012-02-28
posté April 09, 2013, 11:32:10 | #25
Tbh I really think earth eca's will be OP when this patch is released.
Not to boast, but my Eca is hitting well over 2k a turn with abit of luck and without Doq. These buffs seem promising.

All changes are great though, really excited for these changes!

- Music


Nun Shall Pass * Member Since 2008-01-09
posté April 09, 2013, 11:52:37 | #26
Yeah, I really don't undestand why did they boost Earth. I saw you and many other Ecas pvping and they are really good, now they will be OP.
So... prepare for a lot people making earth ecas, and the nerf sooner or later


This post has been edited by Rokugatsu - April 09, 2013, 11:52:54.
Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2012-02-28
posté April 09, 2013, 12:30:51 | #27
Especially since the tarot system isn't so punishing on the Eca now, it'll be a lot more friendly to new ecas.

- Music


Squited Arachnee * Member Since 2008-06-02
posté April 09, 2013, 15:42:54 | #28

Quote (VoidSettler @ 09 April 2013 05:55) *
What role does water have? Support-Support healer!
I'm sure the Eniripsa will always be the hardest, the easiest and the most straightforward healer class. 'That's their thing'. The Kitties however will be supporting by doing damage 'and' healing [at the same time]. Don't expect to be the best at either, but excell at doing both things adequately and you'll have an amazing concept for an adaptive support- healer.
I know an animal in the planet with the same characteristics:

a Duck:
It's not a good walker, it's not a good flyer and it's not a good swimmer....

How I see Water Ecaflips after revamp:

*Group going to Shhhdoku shouts: "LFM Eni!!"*
WaterEcaflip answers: "Yo, I can go with you! My class was revamped for better healing and mobility!!"
*Group checks the change-logs and notices the MP costs/Low ranges/Low values/Lots of "ifs"*
*Group answers: "Uh... I don't think so buddy..."*


This post has been edited by ZeraKoN - April 09, 2013, 15:59:01.
Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2011-02-25
posté April 09, 2013, 15:47:18 | #29

Quote (Rokugatsu @ 09 April 2013 11:52) *
Yeah, I really don't undestand why did they boost Earth. I saw you and many other Ecas pvping and they are really good, now they will be OP.
So... prepare for a lot people making earth ecas, and the nerf sooner or later

sadly yes they will nerf us into the ground in the future if it stays like this.

Seeing alot of new Earth Ecas popping out, just because they are the flavor of the month will make me sad  


Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2011-03-29
posté April 09, 2013, 17:56:33 | #30
I actually like some the changes in water eca. And don't mind the mp cost in the spells Up to scratch and hunter give some nice mobility and damage for the amount they cost. Having this 2 spells + feline leap + cat tree makes the water ecas have great mobility for low mp cost. This being said I don't mind the mp cost in fleahopper at all.

Then you get the 2 healing spells. And they suck. both need enemys to be close to the person you need to heal. Fleahopper is is an half heal half damage spell that I can only see being usefull to melee chars (iops, sacs etc) and flealove takes time to have an effect. This will make the water eca actually a bad healer and unreliable.


This post has been edited by gregobb - April 09, 2013, 23:14:50.
Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2012-12-15
posté April 10, 2013, 01:14:25 | #31
I think flealine army really needs to be able to activate on water spells. Or at least the non healing ones.

Also earth looks like it gets massive damage bonuses from everything now, it seems to outclass water and fire.


Teethless Sharkie * Member Since 2011-09-12
posté April 11, 2013, 22:43:52 | #32
I can already tell that Earth's bonus will be scaled back abit before final release. I love how there will be more Earth cats, but I just know it'll only be because of the damage shift. I've been an earth ecaflip since closed beta, and I know the amount of heart it takes to feel the element of luck (when to press luck, when to DoQ). It's like a subtle tug on your heartstrings.

So, welcome to all the new dedicated Ecaflip players. Enjoy the class, because it's all about flavor.

Edit: I hope Dev's learned to make the hunter glyph invisible to enemies. That would be an improvement


This post has been edited by MakoSeraph - April 11, 2013, 22:50:04.
The Sinister Six * Member Since 2012-02-09
posté April 12, 2013, 03:33:23 | #33
Did we just forget that Precision got a 350% damage cut?

That's pretty huge.

Also Cat still costs 3 AP and it's still paper. I have to spend points in for Leap bonuses. Roll Again was pretty crap honestly and wasn't worth putting points into.

No need to blow it out of proportion as much as people blew Earth Rogues out to be.


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2012-12-15
posté April 12, 2013, 03:39:37 | #34
Odd MakoSeraph, most of the cats i see are earth at the moment. Now its plain better than the other elements .


Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2012-02-28
posté April 12, 2013, 05:19:42 | #35

Quote (axemangx @ 12 April 2013 03:33) *
Did we just forget that Precision got a 350% damage cut?

Even if we didn't hit precision, we would still be a lot stronger.

Say for example you get a positive card that's already +40%, say you get 10WS or 20WS, that's another 20%, or 40% of crit damage. Further more you can roll again giving you an extra 30% damage.
And leap giving 50% all damage is crazy.

We didn't always hit the 500% damage on precision anyway.

Cat is also situational and is much better than before. You could block LoS since you can control it now, if you're in a large map and you're starting far, you could rack up some WS by just summoning the cat and getting some crits off.

We're given so much more new options within the revamp.

That said, its not being blown out of proportion. These changes will make us so much better than we already are, and we're already great. (excluding water)


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2012-12-15
posté April 12, 2013, 05:53:42 | #36
And what if you are water? Now instead of a really good tank you are a really bad healer.

I may end up deleting my water/fire after this.


Tofurby on Diet * Member Since 2005-08-20
posté April 12, 2013, 06:14:46 | #37
First impression: nice. This update is changing one of my least-favorite aspects of Ecaflips, that damned Ouginak-Ecaflip Tarot combination. I lost so many fights because of it that I stopped using Ecaflip's Tarot entirely (even though I loved the randomness the rest of the time).

And I'm highly amused to see Hunter brought back. (For those who've been around since the beta, Hunter was part of the Ecaflip's Air spells, back when we had an Air branch based on cat-like abilities)

I'm glad to see Die Alright's minimum range changed. It was a pain not having any 1-range attacks (except for one that requires spending Wakfu points) in the Fire branch.

At the same time, it changes other things I was enjoying. After I specced out of Tarot, I'd rebuilt my Ecaflip as a mainly-Fire Proc-Master, with Precision and Flealine Army both raised pretty high. I can still do that, but I loved the Flea Love proc (Fleahopper is not as interesting an effect to proc) and... well, I'm not sure about this new distribution of damage for Precision. (I'm not saying it's good, I'm not saying it's bad; I'm saying I'm not sure. Depending on how rare a Brain hit is in the current version, this may well be an overall buff to damage)

I think I need to start playing seriously again, but I don't look foward to having to re-respec into an Earth/Tarot build again. (I'll probably keep Precision) I hope there's a skill reset with all these changes.


Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2012-02-28
posté April 12, 2013, 06:27:33 | #38

Quote (HakazabaJub @ 12 April 2013 05:53) *
And what if you are water? Now instead of a really good tank you are a really bad healer.

I may end up deleting my water/fire after this.

And if you're water, you still have many builds that put out quite a bit of damage. One that i think is pretty good would be 10AP with flea army.

Using two Up to Scratch, and since we're eca's crits would make that = 198 base damage. (level 100 up to scratch)

With the 2 AP left you could AoN and try you're luck to get flea army procs off for some extra crit while also trying to get 4 AP again so you can Up to Scratch again or you would try get 1 AP more and put down hunter then continue AoN'ing or simply just Rough Tongue or Leap with the 2 AP.

Just think about it.


This post has been edited by Koryaze - April 12, 2013, 06:28:30.
Soft Crackler * Member Since 2012-02-02
posté April 12, 2013, 10:13:50 | #39
the problem with 2 up to scratch, is the range is 3-4. so you have to have good dodge to be able to break if you don't hop.


Squited Arachnee * Member Since 2008-06-02
posté April 12, 2013, 13:34:48 | #40
Well, all I know is that Water Ecaflips did wait a hell lot of time, and when changes came, they were not that good. Yes, they might put Water Ecaflips on a better position, but still one of the most useless classes in the game.

You can't assign a role to them that any other class can't do better.
Role support: Xelors, Fecas and Sadidas are better.
Role tank: Sacriers, Pandas and Iops are better.
Role Healer: lol....
Role DD: Cras, Srams and Osamodas are better
(by this comparisons I'm not saying Xelors cant be a DD or vice-versa, these are just examples)

As I said b4, nobody is going to ask u to join their group because of this changes or either make tactics that include Water Ecaflips.

I like Ecaflip how is it now, they just needed a boost on the "vampiric healer" status... they were unique... the only real life-stealer class in game... Maybe Up&Scratch and Hunter could life-steal? dunno.. I just... dislike the fact that in a near future, only 2/5 spells will hp-steal... it was the "essence" of the class... now it's gone...