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And one use per turn, deal.
Then it will be useless again. Like i've said before sadida should have other spells to use not just Rust. With drain sadida's damage output will be lowered because it won't increase doll's AP. 6AP is fine cost, especially that it's last spell in water branch and should be strong.


And that pushes you back. *clap clap
Air doll doesn't push you back. It can travel with you away only (with help of K'mir) .... like a dog on a walk hehe. Always fun to see.


Dolls MP are fine as they are now. /enough said
Blocker = 2 mp, sacrificial doll = 3 mp, greedy = 4 mp, madoll = 4 mp.... ekhm... madoll is not even attacking doll so it should have that 5 mp.


Everyone wants the old totems.
Question is: will Ankama listen to what players want.


Summon pet. Pet dies. Wait a turn. Summon same pet.
You don't need to re-capture your pets if they die in combat which is a huge buff, so yes you should waste AP to resummon it, phoenix spirit is meant to save you time from re-capturing pets.
I have to disagree. Ankama implemented the capturing "pokemons" for osamodas to make it capture them in great number, as if it was supposed to be fun. Phoenix spirit was not added to specialist list only to protect 1 of osamodas summon with just 20% chance that could never happen in pve, and that osamodas wouldn't even bother with it knowing it could have 100+ of that creature. This would make this speciality useless if it was meant to work for that. Thats why it is there to randomly resurect summon so osamodas don't need to waste another ap and wp. You can also compare sadida specialities with osamodas specialities. They are similar. As for sadida there is doll sacrifice that allow sadida to not loose it's summon but it's manually, though it heal in same time. Osamodas have 2 different specialities for that but he don't need to activate them as those are both passive (Animal Link and Phoenix spirit) though the second one not always trigger. And there's no need to argue here. What i did was to increase the % from 20 to 40. If you have suggestion for a passive speciality for osamodas that could replace Phoenix Spirit then please share it with us.


No every element is not meant to deal damage.
Oh... so the damage in water spells are a mistake? Why you think there was so much complains about water spells (sadida, ecaflip - examples)? Because those were too weak. You can tell that water branch is not meant to deal damage only because iop doesn't have this element! It's supposed to be equal with any other element with just some differences in effect, such as that water element can include healing, while fire can have blindness or explosion, where air gives pushes or swaping places and earth is just for pure dmg with some defensive bonuses. And still it depends more on class that have this branch more then on element. As for ecaflip - they have aoe that can heal too, and eniripsa can heal with marks after using one of it's specialities. You could say fire is not meant to heal. But there's no such rule.


Same as a little above. I didn't want you to try to answer that.
Sometimes i don't know when you troll. Reading mind is difficult via internet, you know


The obvious sentence is obvious and it's obvious that I was comparing them both with the cra. Sacriers are tanks thus they need to be close combat. Chill.
This was about limiting Pandawhack to 1 use per turn, wich i find not necessary.


Free MP, -tiny% resistance. It is not even a bad thing for allies.
Monsters usually aim for those with lowest resistance (if they can choose that is) so it would be nice bonus to the spell. You can use karchamrak few times on enemy to decrease it's resistance more. But if you use it few times on an ally... no difference? Not cool. It have to increase this resistance. As a support pandawa you should choose to debuff enemy or buff ally.


If they used points in it, they should be healed. It's not that much after all.
Zombies can't be healed though. It would be good enough if enripsa wouldn't suffer from it (like it does now).


Oh how I miss old days where Hyperaction wasn't even an idea.
I don't. There was no chance to beat xelors. And i still remember the epic OP xelors with immortality bug and unlimited ap bugs.... That nightmare...


As I mentioned above both Iops and Sacriers are close combat. Your ridiculous suggestions are not gonna happen.
IF people complain its too powerfull then nerf is needed. If people keep complaining Ankama will realise that something is wrong. Still it's just a suggestion to balance classes. So it can happen as those are not ridiculous suggestions. And i still don't understand your math that you did there:


Why it suffer 7 when it should suffer 13 if the damage is 43? And why you add it? No! You don;t add it. You doing it wrong. Normal damage for 3 ap is 30 so if sacrier deal 43 dmg then it got buffed greatly by 13 dmg so it hurt self for that 13 dmg. You don't add this. Becase you could do that endlessly:
OH its 43 dmg and it hurt self for 7 dmg so we add it and its 50, so it deal 50 but hurt self for 7 so we add it and its 57 but it hurt self for 7 dmg so we add it and its 64.... Really man? That's crazy and not gonna happen. I;m just waiting for Ankama to realise how op fire sacrier is, but looking at the nerfs they will do to Angrr i see that they already trying to balance it somehow. We will see after patch.


Ah okay, a Sacrier and an Eni can only kill lonely mobs. Also they are really useful in PvP.
You didnt' understood what i wanted to say. Sacrier should be good without enripsa in team. Teams should not always contain enripsa. There should be other viable teams that can play without eniripsa, and so on. Just like with sadida - it's good if there is eniripsa that keeps healing the dolls, but eniripsa should heal allies - the ones that need heal, instead of focusing to keep sadida doll's alive as they have retarded HP. Sadida, just like sacrier - should be good without eniripsa. Eniripsa just like other classes should only give some combo's when teamed up with them.


Once again, not gonna happen.
Everything is possible. It's Ankama :O


I'm talking about plaguing arrow. Sigh, read and understand.
I know you talking about plaguing arrow where i didn't said what i said with wp cost relating to palguing but to seekin' arrow. Guess you missunderstood me, so nevermind.


You reminded me of a conversation with Finalhour about the Dial being so OP.
And you make me less bored of waiting for the patch, thank you


This post has been edited by Kikuihimonji - July 04, 2012, 02:54:46.

1. But Sadida shouldn't be able to keep all of her dolls alive forever.
2. You said so.
3. /enough said
4. No.
5. With your gobup you don't need to re-capture pets. Just no.
6. Some elements have support spells and effects so their damage is lower because what really matters is the effect.
7. Trololo
8. Ok then I was too lazy to find the sentence I was reffering to. Pandas can get too much lock with three uses.
9. They also aim for the closest so even if you give your allies resistance they will get attacked.
10. Alright.
11. Not those old days. A bit later
12. I added it once, you started to do something senseless and added it repeatedly for no reason. If you want to nerf Sacriers make Jabs hit 20.
13. -
14. That's why lots of things won't happen; because it's Ankama.
15. If you knew I was talking about Plaguing why the hell did you start to talk about Seekin'?
16. I wish you posted faster, I really enjoy this.

 

1. And it won't because of doll link and aoe spells. It will only make dolls last longer. Still it's up to sadida if it want to keep the doll or let it explode.
5. Again: phoenix spirit is NOT to make osamodas not recapture summons. Its for helping in combat. I feel i am just repeating myself.
6. But if it's just pure damage spell and its water then it's meant to deal damage. You can't judge whole element because it's water, really. They could make cra with water branch and it would be damaging one too. For pandawa water is damage and support in same time, for feca water is damage and versality and for enutrof its damage and drops. Water is meant to deal damage in same way fire, earth or air is. IF they add effect to fire then its lower in damage too.
8. Still if they use this spell to gain lock, they won't gain resistance that they could get with other earth spell, wich is more important then lock.
9. Exactly! That's why resistance bonus is needed.
12. If jabs hit 20 then it's no more a damage dealer class and will be underpowered comparing to others. Once again: to make balance for sacrier and to keep concept of tank who can turn berserk fire spells should gain power at the cost of own hp sacrifice. Still 3 ap spell can't hit for 50+, whatever the cost it's just 2 ap higher damage output. So sacriers can have this 1 ap damage higher (40 for 3ap) and i added a litle more damage (43) so that it is comperable with 4 ap spells that deal 44 dmg. And sacrier's need that balancing wich is nerf. Ankama let us play overpowered classes so you should expect the nerf, just like with xelor and their unlimited ap - it was obvious it's too devastating so the nerf was needed. As for fire sacriers i had pvp with one who started fight at low hp on purpose and he killed himself with it's fire spell to make me suffer 50%+ loss in hp and then he ressurected and finished me. So yes fire sacrier's are op. I can't wait for the changes they will make to sacrier. I want fair pvp with them - aka pvp where i have a chance to win, not the obvious pvp where i can give up at start.
14. I still hope wakfu will shine in a year or two.
15. Because i wanted to clarify it that i was talking about seekin' and you've thought it was plaguing.
16. Enjoy. I do wish other people join conversation. I am afraid though that they won't speak seeing this wall of text.

1. You can heal them to full HP at the start of your turn, nah.
5. I am repeating myself too, you can resummon the same pet in two turns, if he "dies", and a different one in the next turn. If you kill a pet with 700 HP, as an example, the pet deserves to die. You can control it and you can tell it to get away, just resummon it in a few turns if it dies.
6. I'm talking about class specific elements, not whole elements from all the classes.
8. Yet ankama limits lots of spells that you should use if you manage to get the needed AP.
9. Nooo...!
12. But all elements are made to hit hard, right? And he is a damage dealer too.
14. A year or two... the only hard part of these games are the graphics.
15. You lack points duh.
16. My first post was a wall of text, but this?

1. If it cost 6 ap then with 8 or 9 ap (usual build for sadida) you can still use drain once and then you have ap left to only place seed (and eventually make earth or air doll if they will apply the changs to spells too, but not water as the cheapest water spell is for 2 ap not 1, and that's for a reason that it's damaging doll). So yea, ok let's even say that sadida have 10 ap build. It heal 1 doll and place another doll - it still looses in damage output comparing to placing seed and using rust twice (or even once - its already better damage output then drain to heal doll). So yes it should be like that. If sadida want to deal less damage just to heal it's dolls then it should be able to do so. And there should be some use of getting 5 leadership - we should be able to get 5 dolls (not to say there are runes with leadership but if we cant keep our dolls healthy then we are not gonna get so many dolls). Now you may say why summoning so many if they won't attack even? Well , there is doll link and air spells redirection wich may lead to some combos but like i've said you need your dolls on the field and if those are injured you have to heal them, and considering aoe spells each doll should heal 100% of drain and that heal should not be reduced with dolls number. Simply like that, it's clever. This heal is still weaker then eniripsa's heal that can heal all allies not just summons so i don't see a reason why you complain.

5. Then give better suggestion on how to change Phoenix Spirit. All you say is just "no". I will tell ou that if you kill pet with 700 hp as an example, the pet deserves to die, but phoenix spirit can bring it back if osamodas is lucky. Controlling makes osamodas loose some ap while it should focus more on buffing it's summon, to support it somehow. Summons can occasionally ressurect. That's nice though it could be tricky if you think that your pet will die and you will summon different one.. suddenly oh man it ressurected. So it's double-edged weapon. Anyway Phoenix Spirit is not necessary so feel free to suggest something that could replace this speciality, if you have no suggestion then stop saying no. It's not possible to leave that slot empty you know.

6. I don't know what you are talking about now. The sentence that "Water is not a damaging branch" is wrong seeing how Ankama can change every branch in every class, and suddenly we might even have every branch with healing spells, not just water (and fire). Do not judge the element.

12. Sacrier is NOT a damage dealer. It's freaking bulky tank with the higherst HP in game and coagulation that might give sacrier an immunity to damage if the damage is too low. Sacrier can turn to damage dealer but at cost of own HP loss for the damage increase, wich is why the change that turn fire spells to damage dealing branch sacrier suffers itself. 43 dmg for 3 ap is deffinetly high damage output that non-damage dealers can't have.

16. I am talking about overall wall of text. Those replies togather with quote's and first long post... people might be like: oh man too much to read, i'll pass. And so they don't reply. That or they don't have time to read all this to reply, even if they would want to.

5. Phoenix Spirit = Clinging to Life; with some changes. Pet dies, resurrects, attacks, dies.
Level, damage%
1, -100%
2, -93%
3, -85%
4, -78%
5, -70%
6, -63%
7, -55%
8, -48%
9, -40%
10, -33%
11, -25%
12, -18%
13, -10%
14, -3%
15, +5%
16, +15%
17, +25%
18, +35%
19, +45%
20, +50%
(Sorry for not posting it as code but it was bugging my post)

12. Quoted from you:
Sacrier is NOT a damage dealer.
Sacrier can turn to damage dealer

16. They are just laaazy.


This post has been edited by River-Song - July 05, 2012, 22:37:49.

5. Is that Phoenix Spirit you suggest a 100% to happen? Becasue if it is then it's overpowered as there is spell that make summon get ap and bonus dmg but die after attacking and then it would ressurect and hit another time for increased dmg? As long as it's random (not 100%) then it's fine, otherwise it's OP. I don't think that bonus +50% dmg is important either.

12. Quoted from me:

So again if sacrier is going to have 50 dmg for 3 ap then it should suffer 20 dmg, yet it's still OP even at that hp loss because other classes might need 5 ap to deal ~50 dmg where sacrier could do that with 3? The hp loss is only making the hp bonus vanish but damage is still too high comparing to other classes, and there's also Angrr dmg bonus! Sorry but you could compare the 50 dmg for 3 ap to jabs (for 2 ap) that would deal 40 dmg - that's how insane it would be. And no, we don't want to see sacrier's both bulky and with high dmg in same time. If they want to hit hard then they have to suffer that hp. I feel i am just repeating myself.

Conditions: Is not Frenzied
And yeah the damage bonus is not that important either. It's to motivate people to level it a bit, but levels 10/11 are still interesting.

Sadida player here. I am still reading your post, and so far really enjoying the suggestions you have given! I do have a bit of criticism and suggestions of my own to add, if you don't mind. All regarding my main class, of course.

Woodland Stench: I liked the debuff suggestion, but I feel it could be lowered a bit. 25% damage is pretty much, let alone if it could be stacked! Sadidas would cast it every turn during a boss fight. Perhaps making the debuff stackable, yet lowering it to about 5% per use? 10/15% and non stackable?

The stack/use ratio would have to be tweaked a bit, or else we would see parties of 6 sadidas killing anything out there.

Poisoned Wind: As much as I would love this change, it does seem a bit too much. Wounded is quite a powerful state when it comes to high-movement monsters. I suggest either increasing its cost or lowering its range, among with a use-per-turn decrease.

Gust: I just wanted to emphasize how much I loved the fact you suggested making its range 0-5. Thank you.

Earthquake: Ughh... I hate this spell. I think I suggested it before, but a way to reduce its random facor (Which is what makes it so loathed by parties) would be turning it into a targeted spell with 0 minimal range (to, for example, 0-3), where if you cast it on yourself the random factor acts. If casted anywhere but on yourself, it would deal a much reduced damage (Something about 15, perhaps lower than other 2 AP spells).

Doll: Hmmm. As much as a WPless cost would be lovely, I feel that 0 WP dolls would not only make Sadidas crowd the battlefield with them, but also be a teammate nuissance. Let's also be honest, if we don't have a WP cost for dolls, we would have nothing to spend it on.
Giving all of them 30% of your hp is also something I don't like. I think keeping the current paradigm is good enough, if anything increasing the maddoll's hp a little.

I also suggest making irritation deal minimal damage, and give the block a weak melee attack as well. Their utility is good, yes, but most Sadidas still rather greedies for a good reason. I feel that giving the two a bit of damage output would balance each doll a bit more, and even the number of dolls generally summoned. On a sidenote, it would also be pretty interesting if one of our own spells could turn a seed into a sacrificed.

Doll Sacrifice: 40% seems a bit too much doesn't it? If we're talking about Block Dolls, you could summon one each turn and heal for 12% of your hp that way.

Explodoll: I feel 40% damage for this is also a bit too much. Perhaps it could be lowered to 30%, and be triggered by sacrifice, but if that happened the damage would be lowered. 10% of the doll's hp perhaps?

Overall I really enjoyed your thoughts, and I am really looking forward to read the rest of your post! When I'm done I shall edit this post, or post again, if I have any other suggestions or criticism to give.

I hope Ankama reads this thread!

Woodland stench will be nerfed to be 2 uses per turn so if that "nerf" apply then this wooldand stench would remove 50% elemental damage (not final dmg), so considering it's weak per AP/MP cost and have low range - it's all fine. Just look at classes and their 400% damage bonus on element (while only 100% on resist). This spell could be good in team of sadida's but otherwise it won't be of much help in 1 vs 1. Still i do agree this spell could apply for example state Lvl.1 (with lvl.1 max) that apply reduced damage (wich means it can't be stackable). I will think about it more and edit my first post.

Considering that Wounded state doesn't get boost from % air damage - it's weak spell in most of the situations. It's good only vs those with 8MP and more and that in case they will move, otherwise the spell will be wasted. This is why i think that poisoned wind should cost MP not AP. But by doing this you may use this spell and then find yourself in lock zone as you won't have MP to escape and so in next turn you won't use poison as it will be useless. That's why i have increased range. I feel this poison should be an additional damage output that sadida could occasionally use if enemy is not placed well, though i could indeed reduce the range and then it would be mainly used via dolls, still occasionally.

About Earthquake i think it's fine with it's randomness. I belive they made it random so that it's not a better version of Multiple Bramble. Still i think that there could be some factor that would make Earthquake ALWAYS hit something, be that sadida, dolls, enemy, beacons, totem,.... always something, never nothing. This way it would be only a gamble to either hurt self or enemy or both enemy and self. That would be a nice change.

WP cost is not necessary and sadida should be able to make army of dolls. That's why we have 5 leadership with our passive speciality (1 basic and4 from Savoir Faire). Note that doll link with 1 doll doesn't help much, but with 5+ dolls it's like Peace armor, though unlike peace armor it can be destroyed when you kill dolls and need few turns to prepare. The more dolls the better doll link will be. Still i don't see a point of dolls costing WP - look there are dungeons where WP is blocked or boss suck WP pretty fast. Sadida (and osamodas too) will be useless there if the summons cost WP. And leadership should be the only factor that limit number of dolls on the field. As for WP cost - it can be used for Tree and Totem.

Each doll need to have 30% of HP, if i want to be honest in beta Greedy doll had twice as much HP as it have now (17% x2 = 34% of sadida's HP) and people were still complaining they die fast. But it was acceptable death as dolls were decent and with that HP you could have 3 dolls easily, not just 1. The Blocker doll had 42% of HP and doll sacrifice was draining 50% of dolls HP. And my suggestion is to make each doll with 30% of HP so that each doll heal the same and so that madoll have the same survivalability as greedy, so that we can choose to summon it instead of greedies all the way. 40% of doll's HP is justified. Why? Because of the cost. With 6 AP you will use whole turn to heal for JUST 12% of HP, where enemy can hit you for 20%+ (that's the reality). In other word's you keep loosing HP and not attacking - you buy time for your team in group fight but in 1 vs 1 it's not that usefull. Also eniripsa can easily heal better without loosing defense (1 less doll = weaker doll link = sadida loose more HP then before). you have to consider this.

As for own spell turning seed to Sacrificial Doll... i belive that Sic'Em more would be good for that: "Sic'Em more: when cast on seed: summon Sacrificial Doll". How about that?

OHi forgot to mention: in reality it's difficult to keep dolls alive and summon next doll's. You wasting a lot of turns but you gain defense with doll link. Still if you are in lock zone you are not gonna make more then 3 dolls attack enemy and those dolls may die fast with aoe (especially if you have doll link as they will suffer more dmg). So having some reserve dolls summoned around will help sadida to last longer. I remmeber how cool sadida was in beta: i was able to help low level players train on kraloves by sending dolls to each kralove so that they were taking the damage and i was just healing dolls or allies via totem (because it was possible back then) and this way we were able to kill big mob, slowly but effectively, with tactic. That was a lot of fun and i really miss this.

Oh and another thing is that we can have 7WP even, while it's hard ot have 7 leadership. See, it's enough with leadership limitation to the number of dolls on the field. No need for WP cost that makes sadida useless in dungeons.

Blocker don't need to deal any damage itself, but Nettling should make Blocker deal earth type damage (for now it deals no-element damage wich is low and sucks). Same for other dolls. Nettling need elemental damage of the doll. But doll's don't need attacks. IF madoll had attacking spells then it would be better then greedy as they will eb able to attack and kite enemy. Though there is this idea to make Madoll repeat using the spell that sadida used to activate it. Still if seed was attacked by enemy with air damage then it would just turn to madoll that use irritation. I think that would be nice addition and would bring new strategies to sadida. Obviously air spell's would need to be rewised but that idea sounds nice.

Again if blocker will have attacking spell then no one will use greedy dolls as blocker simply survives longer. I don't like that idea. To balance doll simply makes them with equal HP. As sadida player the main reason why i don't summon air doll is because of ridiculously low healing from it in case i will want to replace it when hypermovement level is too high and it just run and do nothing.

Explodoll is double edged weapon - enemy can use this to hurt sadida instead by killing the doll when it's near sadida (with ranged spells). So sadida that add explodoll can have some troubles with it, but on the other hand in pve it's usefull. Back in beta doll's were exploding for 60% of their HP, and that was too much. 30% is still low and no one really care about that damage in pvp (especially that it can be avoided by killing dolls at distance). I find 40% fair enough and make sadida's want to go for HP build instead of AP or chance. I want HP build's to be viable. Still it depends if Ankama will change the HP gain or not.

Again if doll explode you have to re-summon it so you waste some AP to do so, and you loose your guard (doll link protection is weaker and you loose obstacle).

This is how i would like to see sadida's. And if other classes will be balanced with that sadida then i would be extremly happy.

EDIT:
I've changed woodland stench now.


This post has been edited by Kikuihimonji - July 06, 2012, 18:25:39.