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Xelors don't need nerf I hear alot of rumours that air cra and fire xelor are going to get nerfed.

Xelors don't need nerf... Everyone is so scared of Temporal burn cause it can do 2000 dmg~ but they forget... Rollback AND timekeekper must be maxed and at least 3 to 4 turns must be wasted to add up to 2000. They also forget that to get the stored AP you need a dial... and dials cost 2 wakfu = No dial, and your temporal burn will do 120ish dmg at around level 50.

So basically 3-turns + 1 to cast it and 4 wakfu points and if for some reason you miss your turn... All that effort is for nothing... I think that requires alot of building (of a dmg build mind you) and plays to actually cast the so called OP attack.

Compare it to licking Ecas, hop around 2 turns and do 60 dmg x 4 at level 30!

Temporal Dust isn't that OP either. If you think about it.

It costs 6 AP to do a single AOE attack that does at level 40 about 80 dmg but comparing to other AOE attacks its not that strong... Take the pandawans for example. I saw level 30 pandas do 110 dmg with AOE and HEALER Enis do 120 dmg. My sram does 125 x 2 dmg a turn and he is just 3 levels above.

Conclusion, unless this nerf is very minor, like a certain condition like. "Cant use rollback on the same turn a dial broke" or something, I think nerfing is not neccessary for Xelors. thoughts?

EDIT: Due to people not fully understanding or having outdated informationg on Timekeeper/rollback/temporal burn and Temporal dust I will briefly explain the skills.

Timekeeper costs 2 AP and stores on your dial 1AP. Should the dial break it will return to the user. At max level it will only cost 1 AP to store. AP not used byt the end of the turn will be lost. (9 levels)

Dials break if you are pushed off the hour cells or if its hit. They cost 2 WP. (9 levels)

Rollback gives you once a turn a 20% chance at max level to gain the AP back of the previously used skill, can only be used once a turn. (20 levels)

Temporal Burn* uses all your AP to deal damage. The range is of 3 cells and cannot be used if the enemy is on the immediate cell. Not AOE.

Temporal Dust is an AOE attack that costs 6 AP, it will deal fire dmg to an area. The user can be hit.


This post has been edited by Kurochikun - April 15, 2012, 19:34:42.

Sadida need 3 turns preperation in order to deal ~600 damage with 3 doll's summoned and those doll's die in 1 turn if someone decides to attack them. So yeah 2000 dmg from temporal seems op. It's like... if you won't kill xelor within 3 turn's xelor will KO you. That's need to be nerfed. Or all classes need to have way more HP. Oh and note that xelor can just around dial freely so it's another difficulty to counter it. Only cra, iop, feca and sacrier can counter it. All other classes will just die. So um yeah, go see base damage of other classes. You will see some got 15 or 18 damage for 2 ap and temporal burn is doing 16 damage for 1 ap. That's what makes it op.
There's also lack of resistance that we get from spell leveling (comparing to damage % we get with spell leveling).
In short: not enough resistance and low HP that can be destroyed in single turn means that class is op. Damage dealer's got bonus damage with specialities, summoners with got additiona damage in form of summons, all could be balanced if only base damage per ap would be similar for every character.
~10HP per 1 AP = balance
~20HP per 1 AP = OP
Now go and investigate your spell's.
Mind HP that we get passively with every level (+495HP total till level 100 for majority, with exception to Sacrier).
Do some math with backstab damage, crit's, damage % to resistance and tell me if you can 1 turn KO other players. If yes then you are OP. 3 turns to KO someone is still lack of balance.

@Kikuihimonji


The issue will still be there, the main problem is that this spell consumes all your AP to do damage. The spell is totally unbalanced now, it should have a cast limit of one target per turn and instead of consuming the whole AP, it should consume up to 6 AP only, no more than that. If a change like that were added we would not have any problem with this spell anymore and Xelors would go back to a normal class.

-.- I cant believe wakfu just exist a few weeks and people start OP OP OP OP You guys should play a other game cause you will NEVER understand that EVERY char has his damm weakness THE DIAL is easily killd and/or you push the xel off the cell.. The dial costs 2 WP, Temporal burn is 2-3 range non modifiable if i am not mistaken. Come on Ankama dont turn wakfu into what has come to dofus... Look poor xelors there, cant even proper AP rape anymore. You already took wisdom away from xelors, Now LEAVE EVERY CHAR ALONE. There is balance, OP Is in your damm heads. Cra,s are alot more diffucult to weaken then xelors ..

That's exactly what I mean!

The dial is easily destroyed, hit it twice or push the xelor of the cell and its over! and yes it only has about 3 cells range. it is limited to 1 target.

Xelors are the Wizards of this game. a ranged damage dealer.

Fire = The DMG
Water = The buffer/debuffer
Air = Flexibility

As you said, If all those classes can stand up to it, than its not overpowered! What stands up to an Air cra? a stronger Air cra, THAT means its overpowered.

I tottaly agree with Dovusplaier

Thx, I hope one day Ankama will realise that people who start calling chars OP are people that dont have the playing skills or the proper knownledge about a certain class to know how to detorminate it! Believe me even now that cra,s are damm strong they have their weakness as well. Its normall, you created 12 Characters, dont expect all chars can kill the other around. Xelors weakness is push and/or low ap cost spells. Cra,s weakness is summomings/chars that get close easily. Iops weakness is ranged chars srams weakness is chars with high perception eca,s weakness is their bad luck eni,s weakness is high hitting chars(iops,cra,s). Sadi,s weakness is porbably Osa. And so on and on.

Proper knowledge or proper skill. So, tell me how hard is to set up a dial and spam a single spell the whole fight.


It's easy to see if a class is unbalanced or not by checking their spells, if all they do is use 1 spell the whole fight that means the other elemental spells are clearly underpowered in comparison to the overused spell.

Get better points before saying someone has no knowledge or skill, I actually only met only 1 fire Xelor that has skill. Weird is that he doesn't rely on Temporal Burn to do damage.

I don't think they have created Dial for Xelors to spam a single unbalanced spell, it would be a lot easier if they just gave Temporal Burn a high WP cost.

Anyways, the probability is high that Xelors and Cras are being balanced by the end of this month. Let's just wait and see who lacks skills here.

Indeed, my ecaflip almost always rely on All in but I do use all the other earth spell alike and don't kill with a overwhelming damage. Fire xelor now days uses temporal burn or temporal burn, is very easy to see this was not planned to be this way.

Who says i am even spamming temporal burn?Ive never really seen xelors spamming that, And i am a chanche xelor, i just dont find it right to just nerf the shit out of chars, But anyway it will happen by people like you, And all in the end your char gets nerfed too. Enjoy while you still can, i wish ankama just didnt listen to idiots..

at lvl 100 temporal burn only 16 damage per AP, its mean on normal xelor is 6ap x 16 damage = 96 damage normal, u can compare with max level spell enu (3x rascaly, or the other broke spell), or iop wrath damage, sram execution, over 100 damage normal at max lvl spell and the other

if xelor have more then 6 AP its just same like iops bonus damage (locking or show off) and the other player bonus. and the only few xelor are strong, the other is supporter,

if temporal burn nerf to only using max 6 AP, so, theres no other option spell for xelor, the other fire spell cost greater then 3 AP. the other class can use alot of spell, like cras can hit 3x (aoe damage) and greater plus critical and riddle.


plus u can fight xelor easly for pvp, just remove him from dial line, swap or push, or pull, or broke dial and xelor cant do anything.

and xelor have disadvanges specialities, like mummyfication and create images, and the 3 other useless specialities for removing AP (only for water xelor), i dont know what for of this its useless, after create image, and then always end turn, not like sram images can hit twice with images.

consclusion: fire xelor didnt have alot of spell and specialities.
only using temporal burn, or temporal dust, tempus fugit(optionaly)
(the other fire spell cost alot of AP)
and the usefull specialities, only dial, rollback, timekeeper, mybe devotion (optional)
So, high level fire xelor didnt know where place to distribute bonus point for speciality??
fire XELOR have a few spell and speciality.

The other specialities only focus in water xelor.

and the fact about FIRE XELOR strong cause focus in 1spell, i have lvl 80 xelor, but my lvl spell temporal burn is 82. cause am focusing on it. (am asking the other player at same lvl 80) they only have level 60+ spell at lvl player 80. so its is the fact.

So compare with another class??


This post has been edited by ahakase - April 14, 2012, 00:56:53.

The only insanely spell is Stormy Arrow i think.. Its a bit of a no.

Temporal Burn is not designed to be a pure damage spell. They added it so Xelors could always have some benefit from extra APs, you are assuming it as a damage spell while it should work as a last choice of doing damage, when you have some AP left.

The thing is, any smart Xelor in PvP will store AP in the first turn, then walk away from Dial. Next turn, doesn't mater what enemey he is fighting (Cra or Iop) he can catch up/get away while setting up another dial. That with 14 AP (6 from Timekeeper), assuming that they have base 8, plus Devotion and that's 16 (doing up to 1300 dmg). Any class will be dead by second turn, unless if it's an Eniripsa under Transcendence Effect.

The Fire Xelor is actually broken, because of Temporal Burn and because of their vulnerability to pushback spells. Which can, or may be fixed in a close future, meaning that those who rely on Temporal Burn will eventually have to level another spell to be effective.

Temporal Burn is not that strong under 7 AP, after that the damage starts increasing insanely.
6 AP = 96
7 AP = 112
10 AP = 160
15 AP = 240

The more base damage you got, more affected by intelligence and fire damage they are. Meaning that no other class would be able to hit more than a Xelor. Please, don't come with the argument that 1-2 turns wasted and a few WP is enough to call it balanced. Any Xelor in PvP can efficiently store AP, get damage and initiative bonus and finish a full health target within 2 turns. And since they tend to have more initiative due to passive spells.. well, there you go.


The truth is one, they are indeed receiving some changes, not because people like me are complaining, but because even though it's hard to believe, the Devs do have brains to detect a clear issue like that. Just 2 more weeks left to go.


This post has been edited by Arthropoda - April 14, 2012, 02:35:44.

Haha no, right now you are proving that the devs are stupid enough to put spells in there, and in there mind its like *Yea i think every xel is gonna use this spell as a second Plan, when timetheft gives me 1 ap it will get in handy*. Come on they have put in the massive power in it, they are responsable for their actions, if they dont like what kind of spells they make they should of NEVER brought it in, All the people that worked so hard to get this spell around 100 are nowgetting their ass kicked becaus the devs *Change* their minds, AGAIN? Besides 15 ap =250?You call THAT high damage?15 ap would be rather 400. And that is not at all high for such high ap cost. There are enough ways to fight against timekeeper, You folks just dont get it.

I give up. Discussing with you is like playing chess against a pigeon. No matter how factual are your arguments/strategy, the pigeon just walks around the board insanely messing with the pieces, and then, it waves it's wings as victorious.

Sad but true.

Fine, give up, Its not that you really tried to tell me or anyone anything at all. You just cried about how hard xelors own you, You didnt make a point. I wont need to discuss further with you, And as far xelor *nerf* goes, This game will turn into shit anyway at some point.

Dovusplaier, as much as It would be lovely to counter your arguments regarding Temporal burn being balanced, I will just tell you to look at any Air Cra with 6 MP and ask you if you think that is balanced.

EIther way, I don't understand how Xelors can get themselves so much AP; didn't timekeeper get a 6-uses-a-turn restriction?

So much unbalance :O
Well, I'm still w8ing for the beta to end so I can finally start playing~ ♥

I have idea how to deal with both "dial knock-off" vulnerability, and "timekeeper+t.burn" obvious OP-ness. Make dial to stay in battle for one more turn after xelor gets knocked off or steps down from it. This way the builds that use dial for normal fight would get ability to return to dial, and "timekeeperburners" would be forced to wait one more turn before using stored ap.
To deal with sacriers/pandawas who could teleport/throw xel too far from dial for him to get back, t.fugit can get ability to teleport straight to dial without LoS or range requirements. It would be balanced by 3 ap cost of t.fugit, leaving xel with only 3ap (or more in ap builds) to use after he escapes back to dial.

It is just quick idea, I did not think it through, maybe someone can add/change something.

Firstly if a xelor goes on his dial and spams temporal burn he will be pretty screwed. Why?
At higher levels people either have long range or alot of movement points, so running away between hours tiles dont help. Not to mention Temporal burn has about 3 cells range AND doesn't work if the enemy is right next to you... So you can choose to stay FAR away or VERY CLOSE. Summons will block a Xelors view and lock on him... Cra will hit you from the otherside of the map. Srams will turn invisiable, Iops and sacriers will get up close. The midrange classes might have someone trouble but even then if they have a close range weapon they can still go in for a hit.

So tell me, how exactly is it profitable to spam temporal burn? You at least have to use Temporal dust(which costs 6AP btw, making your "OMG Its stacked dmg OPness" useless) or Water/ Air Attacks.

So by what you say " It's easy to see if a class is unbalanced or not by checking their spells, if all they do is use 1 spellthe whole fight that means the other elemental spells are clearly underpowered in comparison to the overused spell." you give evidence against yourself that this class is NOT OP.

Thanks~

Oh and further more "Temporal Burn is not designed to be a pure damage spell. They added it so Xelors could always have some benefit from extra APs, you are assuming it as a damage spell while it should work as a last choice of doing damage, when you have some AP left."

If that is so than why create a spell called timekeeper... if used befre being maxed you are effectively losing 1 AP a cast... So if it wasn't meant for using it with Temporal burn...what was it for? Bring your current AP to the next turn? Why? That's like choosing to do "4" instead of "2+2=4" even if it was to steal more AP from enemies what would the point of that be? Since you already took full dmg that could have been halved in the last turn.

So yes Temporal burn WAS indeed created for dmg. Not to get rid of extra AP. Especially since Xelors already have plenty of attacks that cost 1 AP, why not use those instead?

I think we covered most of the Xelor's misconceptions, most of the people who commented clearly show in their answers that they had contact with a Xelor but never really used them. They are argueing based on what they have seen but not in the intricancies that goes into it. People should really play as a Xelor until level 50ish before commenting, this is why I don't make bold statements about the air cra.


This post has been edited by Kurochikun - April 15, 2012, 14:53:45.

Timekeeper is bassicly to transfer some turns to 1 single turn, you waste like 4-6 turns to get 1 precious turn, and 1 single turn is EASILY avoided. About aircra,s, they are indeed not balanced, but it is the only class that needs redone. Ankama has just his preferences. Sad but true. If they are gonna *nerf* xelors you will see that they will be one of the most underpowered classes in Wakfu, Temporal burn is never meant to be a 1 ap spell, in that case it would be 1 ap cost dont you think?


This post has been edited by dovusplaier - April 15, 2012, 15:07:10.