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I agree that coney should no cost WP. There is no real reason to make it cost WP, unless Ankama is afraid that it will be unbeatable with additioonal heal that coney give.

Cra was awsome in beta - when it could place beacons on bridges and block the way for enemy. It had less dmg output then now and it had less escaping spells, but they simply turned cra into a more average at range, stronger dmg dealer with more limitations to where it can place beacon.

You know... the beacons blocking bridge - i belive thats why cra is weak in melee - because it could avoid getting hit for long. But since that got removed, Cra didnt gained any reliable way of escaping that dont cost WP.

Maybe its me but i think that Beacons should cost 1MP not WP.

As for the topic, yes i agree that every class should be awsome at something. Eni should be better healer then other healers, Cra should have more range then other classes, feca should have more resistance then other classes, iop should have highest dmg of all classes, sacrier should have highest HP of all classes and Sadida should be an awsome summoner class that can use multiple dolls to block the cells in any direction so it can protect allies with dolls and control where the monster will go by making it need to go around doll or attack doll.

Sadly not all classes fit their roles. Sadida for example is still underpowered and cannot fulfill its job - unless you are in dungeon with 20~40 less level then yours, then you can help other players by making dolls tank dmg properly. But at equal levels Sadida is still not viable as doll summoner (and ai of dolls make it even worse). And as for Cra i really don't understand why they had to reduce it's range by 1. It doesn't change anything in pvp really as maps are usuallly small, but might make difference in pve at certain maps or vs UB (like black crow). Cra might indeed gain advantage in first turn or two, but once it get to close combat fight - it becomes weaker and might not even use all AP to attack, not to mention problems with Lock and map edge, wich make it impossible to use disengage.

We could talk about complains day and night, but the point is that instead of nerfing classes they should improve them. The main problem is that it seems they are afraid to buff class because they dont want to turn it overpowered. Funny is that somehow they allow Ecaflip to deal double dmg with All in and with chance to stun and with 100% crit rate to make it deal 300% stronger dmg (very op). The luck of ecaflip currently is that if its not lucky it will deal normal dmg as other classes, but if lucky it will deal more dmg then an UB. I don't understand how they balance classes. Maybe they think that "support class" should be "just support" and thefore it should die so that enemis can get rid of support class first to then kill dmg dealer? If thats the case then i hate it. Support classes should be able to tank dmg well so that they can support dmg dealers. If dmg dealers die then support classes will be left alone and will have to deal with enemy dmg dealers. Thats the way it should be. The most awkward class is Sacrier - it has great dmg so its dmg dealer, but it also has greatest tank abilities (highest HP pool + coagulation) and it is also an support class (air spells, swaping places, pulling, pushing, protecting allies, etc).

If every class would be balanced to be in same line with Sacrier, then the game will be finally good.
What i want to say is that if Sacrier has dmg bonus and HP bonus and field manipulation spells, then Iop should have greater dmg as it has less HP then sacrier (in full team). Also if Cra is only good at distance, then it need the way to escape lock zone, without WP cost (even if it mean high ap cost but then it should gain distance to be able to not get locked again every turn). And sadida should have ability to redirect dmg from self to dolls, so that with dolls summoned it can receive way less dmg, so that it can focus to play WITH dolls or support allies without worries that it need to protect self or withotu worries to need to re-summon dolls every turn. It's good that we can't run out of dolls now, but we are still stuck to summon them every turn because they lack of proper resistance to remain on the field for long enough to make Sadida able to summon all dolls and play togather for few turns with cute little doll army.

As for ecaflip in my opinion if its lucky then it should deal more dmg then others (crit), but if unlucky then it should deal less dmg then others - thats the whole point of being lucky or unlucky. If bad luck for ecaflip means normal dmg then its not bad luck, its just "lack of luck". That's not the same.

Also Sram should be able to attack from behind easily and stay invisible for longer then now. However if other classes are so weak that they can't counter it, then it's those other classes that need improvement.

Every class should be good at something. And they should do it "like a boss".

@Darkstorm
If xelor will be able to steal all AP of target then it will be not balanced in pvp - because that is just the same as stun state where you are unable to do anything. In other words without Hyperaction, Xelor will kill everybody by removing all of their AP every single turn.

I think i will have to repeat myself: "on allies only" means "do not use on enemies" wich is the same as "can be cast on self, allied summons or allies themself".


So stop saying " make it limit one per character per battle" because it will be worse then what Grou suggested (use on every character (as long as it belong to allied team) but only every 2nd turn on the same target).

If it will be possible to cast regeneration on an ally and then use transcendance on him - that would be really nice combo and i'd say i would like this change.

+1 to this.

I think it would be much better if Heal resist was a state like Hyperaction or Hypermovement that is reduced every turn by few levels, stack when heal is repeatedly used and vanish eventually if no heal is done for few turns.

That would make players unable to keep healing 1 target all the time as the heal will be weaker and weaker, however there could exist a possiblity for 2nd tank to move in action and tank the dmg while the other tank is trying to avoid dmg and reduce own heal resist %. This will give a new reason to use Sacrier, Feca or Sadida (due to bramble shell, but i still hope you will rollback the Doll Link to what it used to be before patch).

It will be more tactical and i belive everybody will like it more as long as the heal resist doesn't increase as fast as mentioned hyperaction/hypermovement. You could also give some spells of eni the ability to remove few levels of heal resist state just like xelor can reduce hyperaction or enutrof can reduce hypermovement.

I think that he means that it will be possible to use Transcendance on allies only - means it cannot be used on enemies. However i still think we can cast it on self, as "allies" means friendly team members, including caster. This means that its actually an improvement as it will be:

1. Usable for more then 1 time per fight (up to even 6 times).
2. It will be perfect to protect 1 ally (or self) every 2nd turn.

I had wish that Tree spell of sadida would work this way... by turning allies to tree ^^... but guess they give this to eniripsa... i am kind of jelous.

So in other words you will implement PvP (GvG) with the still underpowered Sadida class that die in 3 turns and allow those who are overpowered now to rule it (ecaflip for example)?

In my opinion you should first make sure that every class has chance in pvp. And currently Sadida can only win pvp vs an iop who has less then 5MP and does not use bow.

I would look forward to these changes if you will also make Sadida improved in next patch.


Too bad you didn't waited with Sadida. You have indeed added something cool: new dolls and ability to not run out of dolls in case they die - that was great. Explodoll concept to not hurt allies but heal them instead was also great but the numbers you have implemented are just too weak. The formula in Sadida spells (Explodoll, Tree, Dolly Sacrifice) will make these 3 spells useful only if we will be able to get to 500Lvl, but the game will end on 200Lvl. It's ridiculous because only Sadida spells are like that, none of the other classes suffer from this. If you will implement GvG before revamps then you will only give adventage to those who are now overpowered and will make those underpowered even more disappointed.

I have a question: You plan to revamp xelor, feca, eni.... and so on, but do you have in plan an another revamp for sadida... something that will fix sadida... something that will make Sadida better... something that will make Sadida welcome in team... something that will make Sadida survive long in pvp? 


This post has been edited by Kikuihimonji - May 15, 2013, 22:01:07.

@sapiLC

I already said it and you can see the proof of the author who said it:


So don't correct me as i know there exist such item but it was not the item itself that we were talking about.

Anyway back to topic i see no real reson to completly remove heal drain. Now that we have another healer classes (ecaflip, sadi, masq) you are removing the ability of eniripsa to gain heal when other players cast heal spells? It's awkward logic. The heal drain needed other healers to be available because there was hardly any team with 2 eni's before (usually 1 eni per team as there was no heal resist at start). So now that heal drain became finally useful you are removing it? I see deja vu here as the same thing happened with doll link of sadida - it would be finally perfectly useful now and it got removed. Just... what are you doing with these revamps? You ruin the concept of class to make each class very similar in gameplay and turn all to dmg dealer? Stop listening to those who want fast win vs UB. Ultimate Boss fights should be designed for long battles, afterall they have 1 week cooldown. These fights should be epic so you should promote survivalability and tactic over pure dmg dealt fast. Same goes for pvp: if fight end within 3 turns even with the increased PvP HP, then there is no place for any tactic in there.

In short if class is not a dmg dealer like Sram or Ecaflip, then it should be able to tank dmg well. Else there will be always issues with balance. You should rather increase eniripsa survivalability.

What you should do is make Eni have 20% bonus hp and 20% bonus hp to allies. Yes, you should buff it, not nerf. 20% is not that much if you consider that dmg daler class cut 33% of HP in 1 turn.

You could also add to eniripsa the ability to trigger Hygiene and turn it into dmg% so that in 1 vs 1PvP eniripsa can also attack instead of trying to heal heal heal. Please note that if eniripsa heal, then it can't kill.

You could also give Eniripsa an ability to fly over enemies head to reach ally, maybe some kind of teleportation to ally close combat cell (target must be ally?). You know: eniripsa has wings - make use of them.


This post has been edited by Kikuihimonji - May 15, 2013, 09:35:58.

What i dislike when i put on my first hat (wodent) is that i cover my beautiful flower that my Sadida have in hair. And later on every hat cover it, even all insygnias... in order to see it i have to not equip hat... it's not comfortable to keep equipping and unnequipping hat just for visual aspect.

For now i feel like it works this way:
"Choose hair style and eye colour and skin colour - take your time in creation screen, we will cover your whole body anyway so that you won't see anything from what you have chosen".

I really wish they give us the ability to view our oryginal look. Be it insygnia or simply an option in option menu (or an option in every piece of equipement so that we can choose if we want to hide this part of equipement or not). Other games have such feature with helmets - players can hide their helmet look or make it back visible at any given time with simple "check" in Equipement window. I belive ankama could do the same with helm, breastplate, cloak and shoes.

Calm down, you seem to misunderstand everything.

First, he was talking about "nerfing axe" and he called it "Grou's Axe" because of the Grou who apply these nerfs.

Second: you misunderstood me.

1.I say as example about Gangrene. It could be other state that get changed.
2. Eniriser - i only suggested that he can add something to it, instead of removing some spells.
3. I asked eniripsa's around and they said they would like if there would be an alternative way to apply zombification - when i asked them "what if an air spell would apply zombification" - they liked the idea. That would allow multi-branch build water/air. I am not talking about lack of proper set now, Ankama will simply have to adapt equipements to the changes (add heal% in equips here and there). Telling that suggestion is bad only because for now there is no item that will work with it is simply wrong. You have to understand that ankama, the one who make changes to class - also make items in game. It's not like they are not gonna change current equipements - they already did it few times. Besides they can add new items. Try to think outside the box.
4. I didn't say that willpower should have the same value as ini for rogue in terms of dmg or heal bonus. I said that just like rogue get bonus from initiative, eniripsa could get heal bonus from willpower. Obviously it would need to be higher % then that of the rogue's initiative as it require us 10 points to add 1 willpower, where initiative cost 2 point.
5. "You still have doll link" - have you ever played sadida before patch and after patch? The doll link we HAD before patch was perfect as each doll was taking 20% of dmg for sadida. The only issue was that dolls, once dead this way, made sadida out of WP fast. Now dolls take 50% of aoe dmg and we get back WP - so we got solution for the problem. However the doll link got changed too and now we only get 10% less dmg and only with voodoll - it's like the worse version of Feca's reflection spell because it require us to summon something and is limited with doll's health. The doll link that "we still have" is the worst possible change that Grou could make to Sadida. Maybe if he would not change Doll link, then Sadida would be still welcome in fights as an "additional tank that we can get "in case of emergency" after 3+ turns of preparation to summon 6 dolls". The Doll Link we had before patch would allow Sadida to properly support ttheir allies without much worring about own health as dolls would protect sadi by taking dmg for it via doll link. Now it's just impossible and Sadida as fragile as paper, a paper who can make balls of paper called dolls - its not even glass cannon, its worse because its not cannon and its not made of glass but made of paper, wich means its easier to destroy it then glass.

What i am trying to say is that SUPPORT CLASSES SHOULD BE ABLE TO TANK DMG WELL SO THAT THEY CAN HELP THEIR ALLIES.
IF SUPPORT CLASS DIE FAST THEN IT FAIL TO BE SUPPORT AND EVERYBODY WILL JUST PICK THE DMG DEALER CLASS IN THEIR PLACE.


This post has been edited by Kikuihimonji - May 14, 2013, 21:22:44.

So heal% + water dmg% is a ok, but heal% + general dmg% is not ok? I don't get it.

I think they are just too busy with revamps and feedback, so they have no time for Inside Ankama on Air.  

This is the wrong way of thinking.

The support class SHOULD be able to tank. How can it support if it get killed easily?

I see that you allow Sacrier to be: damage dealer, tank and support (in positioning) at same time but you made it impossible for Sadida to tank and support by removing Doll Link that was reducing dmg that sadida take and give it to dolls (wich was the only thing before Sadida patch that DID'NT NEED CHANGE). And now you will also make it impossible for Eniripsa to tank while healing others...

You are doing it the wrong way. If Eniripsa heal ally, then it doesn't heal self, and then if it heal self, it doesn't heal ally (there is that aoe heal that doesn't heal eni just allies around it, wich is fine as it is, though could have better aoe).

You added Heal Resistance mechanic that will eventually limit the heal gained, therefore there is no need for futher nerfs on healing.

As for eniripsa i think you should rather give eniripsas a heal% bonus gained from willpower and with willpower passive bonus (smilar to Initiator of rogue + Rogue master ini bonus). This will make eniripsa less likely to receive stun or get ap removed - wich will be good for support role of eniripsa.

As for unnatural remedies i am bit dissapointed with the fact that other healers in team will be unable to dmg enemy with heal, wich means that Mudoll on zombified Voodoll combo will no longer exist.

As for infection states i think that it should apply zombification when it hit lvl 100 (and therefore infection get removed when zombification is applied). Eniripsa should be able to try to trigger states from air spells manually. So how about turning unnatural remedies spell to be used for air spells to trigger effects from them? For example if Eniripsa cast it on self then next air spell will trigger it's effect depending on the number of infection on target? That would be more interesting.

As for marks you could give eniripsa active spell in supports that will give "blank mark" on target, wich would had no effect by itself and will visually appear as black mark - the shape of that mark could be the same as the icon for Expert Healer. In fact the bonus from expert healer should be merged with other passive and then you could add some new passive to eniripsa instead of removing current ones. you can also merge Heal Drain with Absorption if needed as they are about draining health in different ways but concept is the same - to receive some additional heals.

As for the blank mark that i have mentioned: it could cost 1AP and could allow eniripsa to mark all targets that have "blank marks" with single fire spell cast on one of them (or on self). You should also make it possible to mark summons. If you see problem with dolls marked with WP-refund mark, then solution is simple: make sadida dolls have 0WP - they are not using it anyway (or make every summon in game have 0WP). This way all marks will be available to be cast on all targets the same way, and only wp mark will have no real use on summons, still the mark would exist visually.

Therefore if we cast fire spell on ally, who doesn't have mark - we will not mark it (as it will have no "blank mark", but still heal (if we use Regeneration before).

The spell that apply the blank mark you could name as Tabula Rasa. It could also erase mark from friendly target (in case of group pvp vs other eni). Maybe you could even merge this with Eniriser spell and keep the Eniriser name.

As for healing spells themself - i think you could add more diversity to them. For example you could add healing spell to water branch that will make target heal all allies in contact where it moves next to them - this will allow ally to heal other ally with mp used (therefore that heal would be equal to 2MP as ally will use 2MP to move and move back).

As for willpower passive - it will also increase the change for air spell effects to trigger (at least it should). This way that passive would be good for all 3 branches (as water and fire heal, and if you will amke eni get heal % from willpower then it will be awsome).

Controlable coney is nice, you could also make it have more then 1 spell. For example you could give coney the ability to jump behind target (like sram with guile) - this will help coney reach ally that it need to heal. And as we all know coney is some kind of rabbit so it should be able to jump effectively. Maybe give coney a spell with 1MP cost that make it jump like iop (2 cell range, no los).

Also you could make it so that if Regeneration is cast on Coney, then it transform into super coney (with regeneration aura on). However if it get hit, it turn back to normal coney. That would be also nice improvement.

As for marks and receiving bonuses from them earlier - maybe such spell could deal dmg in same time the mark is removed? Maybe eniriser cast on marked enemy should deal fire dmg (and remove mark in same time)?

As for infection effects: you can give enripsa the state that make target loose 2x more MP when it use MP (when 1MP used, another MP is lost). That could be related to make target heavy or maybe make it feel the increased gravity effect (maybe even make it stabilized so it cannot jump). That would be an interesting debuff wich could replace Gangrene.

As for the 4th air spell called "Infected Flask" - it could apply Zombification with some % chance. The % chance would be increased with willpower and infected state lvl. That way zombification could last until the end of TARGET turn (just like now) as Eniripsa will be unable to apply it every turn.

Just wanted to give some thoughts from me on what you can change.

That could be some major change...

Just what about makabra weapons that we already brought? They would not fit to the classyfication that you have stated (for example as water sadi i use makabra wand). Does it mean people who brought these weapons lost their money for something that they have to replace?

If only dolls had higher resist so that they can tank dmg of UB and survive, then Sadida could use them well for field control with push/pull with the use of ultrapowerful doll controled for example and it would be a replacement for sacrier/pandawa maybe.... yeah i keep dreaming but i really wish they give more love to Sadi.

It would be simply better if they would give us maxed value at 20 spell level.
For example Pacification spell of Feca - at 20 lvl it give 100% dmg for -100% res. Feca doesn't need to wait till 200 lvl to have it work this way - it can be effective at early levels, unlike Sadida's spells. Even Tree's resist bonus is awkward because it scale with level, making it pointless at 21 lvl to be maxed as it will give 10% resist wich is like nothing and doesn't give any noticable dmg change from attacks. Tree spell should give us 100% resist right away (because it will give us 100% at 200lvl), or maybe to not make sadida receive 1 dmg at 21 lvl in Tree turn (though, why not?), they should make Tree spell reduce dmg taken by sadida by 90% (final) starting with 0% at Tree lvl 0 and increasing by 10% for every Tree-spell level. This will be balanced protection effective at all levels equally and will be worth the WP cost and will finally allow Sadida to have a chance vs those that hit hard as rock and have higher ini then Sadida. Thats at least what they could change, and its one of the many changes they should make.

If its the case of unnatural remedies, then they should simply modify this state itself instead of making heal not get bonus from dmg%. Or they should simply replace items with general dmg % to give air,fire,water,earth element dmg % instead so that class that have dmg% to boost all elements won't suffer for the lack of heal.

The solution could be that unnatural remedies make heal turn into damage but in same time make heal spells take resist of target into account.


This post has been edited by Kikuihimonji - May 13, 2013, 12:33:36.

I see all good changes to Xelor. Sure we loose free telport when we cast dial so we wil have to deal with Lock of enemies, but that sound fair to me - we can still jump on nice distance as long as dial is up. Dial now will have less charges wich seems bad when i look at it, but maybe with timekeeper it will be acceptable, though i already see xelors using 3x timkeeper every turn just to try to keep dial up.

But that buff "crystalization" seems epic. +100% dmg bonus practically permanent after few turns unless you will get locked or stunned/put to sleep.

Its awsome change for Xelor.

Also rollback will now take AP used into account, wich means it will be less likely to rollback cheap spell like Aging, and instead rollback something that cost 5-6AP more likely. Unless i missunderstood how it works but if not then i think its good change.

However that Desynchronization looks pointless to me, especially that we looose 3AP when we use it, unless the change to tick turned to tock is permanent and make us have only tock or only tick turns while dial is up, then it would give Xelor the ability to remove AP easier every turn, instead of removing them every second turn.... wich might be the reason why dial has only 3 charges.

Also correct me if i am wrong but xelor will have higher chance to remove AP after this change? Sounds overpowered to me if xelor will be able to steal almost all of enemy AP every turn for several turns.... its almost like guaranteed stun... we will have to see this work.

Who knows maybe they will add more equips with AP removal resist and xelor will be fine?

True that. But each time i manage to win vs someone who try to defeat me by killing my dolls (in hope to make me loose WP that way) people scream to nerf Sadida.... as if it weren't already the weakest of the classes.

Even managed to win vs Feca who had 400% dmg fire and ~300%+ resistances - only because he had Teleportation at lvl 0 and couldn't catch me, therefore he only tried to kill dolls and get to me... with failure attempt. I, however, can't call myself overpowered because of that, it was simply the noob with cool stats who didn't know how to fight vs Sadi.

I really hope for Sadida buff/fix/revamp.