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Clan Members
posté July 31, 2009, 10:04:19 | #1
Clan Members

One clan to protect them all, one clan to save them.One clan to bring them all and in the light guide them.

For several weeks now, since Ankama Convention #4 to be exact, people have been throwing a strange acronym into conversations on the Wakfu French forums: MdC...

CM in English, or Clan Members, are something that promise to be one of the pillars of the Wakfu game.


What are Clan Members?

Ogrest's Chaos was the presumed cause of the disaster that led to the world of DOFUS being in the state we know in Wakfu. The Twelve did not stand idly by when faced with the difficulties encountered by their disciples. In a move to protect the land as well as their inhabitants, they entrusted some of their powers to a handful of elected officials. Thus the Clan Members were born.

Today, these Protectors are in the service of a nation, but retain control over their territories.

What do they do?

The Protectors offer a number of services to citizens of their nation: challenges, bonuses, information about the weather and the ecosystem, etc. They act as perceptors in a territory and will be essential allies for governors.

The money collected by the governors can be reinvested by them in buying improvements for the protector, new challenges, and changes in climate (a heatwave! Who ordered a heatwave?)...

Fight! Fight! Fight!

It will of course be possible to attack a Protector affiliated with a nation hostile to yours. But beware! Attacking a demigod is not to be taken lightly! You must start by putting some money or items on the table before it will deign to pit its strength against you. And don’t forget to count on the presence of the attacked nation’s players, who surely will not leave their fellow citizen to face a common enemy alone!

You can guess, however, that facing these challenges and overcoming them will not be without reward. If you are able to defeat a Clan Member, not only will you win their allegiance, but also all of the benefits associated with it.

But CM doesn’t rhyme with NPC…

So, with that said, you can perhaps understand a little bit better why Kam spoke of the CMs being a feature that would make some players’ hair stand on end (see Anthox’ report ). We have always promised that Wakfu would be devoid of NPCs, and yet in the strictest sense of the term, that is what CMs are. If this seems to go against everything we have said on this topic until now, we’d like to discuss it with you by putting things into the proper context.

What is an NPC? A Non Player Character. A monster is an NPC. Just like a moderator or a GM in-game are NPCs (which goes to show that an NPC can also be controlled by a human).

The kind of NPC that we don’t want to see in Wakfu is very specific: one who, whatever happens, will always be in the same place, repeating the same sentence to you, giving you the same quest and selling you the same thing. Here’s a typical example: The landlord behind the counter who tirelessly asks you "Hey boy! Fancy a beer? ", even when his property is being ransacked by invading enemies.

The Protectors are more than just simple NPCs. They have a true identity, their behaviour is governed by an advanced AI. As well as bringing role-playing consistency to features such as Challenges, they act as the interface to several other features. The game’s momentum will be built around them thanks to their close links with the management of nations’ politics, territory conquests or the challenges they offer to players.

To finish, here’s an exclusive look at the 4 female members of the Emelka Clan:

Fervie Kal, Kéro Zen, Lora Ingalsse et Oksi Gênée

We will certainly go into more detail on the behaviour and personalities of the protectors at a later date, with a more complete introduction to the Protectors of Emelka.




posté July 31, 2009, 10:12:50 | #2
Impressive.

Although, an alternative idea I'd like to suggest, is using player moderators or game moderators as the 'Protectors'. That would keep with the original "NO NPC" rule.

I understand that this might have some flaws, such as the GMs/Mods being online one after another, just to keep the Protector 'available', but then again, this can be taken care of with a nice schedule and a bit of devotion.

Still, an excellent post, thanks a ton, Zidrune. Nice to see the development progressing.


posté July 31, 2009, 16:35:21 | #3
It seems Clan Members are NPC with good AI and many posibilities. But still NPC.
But that`s OK. NPC are not bad. You`re right: NPC who do over the same thing are bad.




posté July 31, 2009, 17:39:01 | #4
These still sound and look like NPCs.

Many games have "AIs" on their NPCs (Gothic NPCs have whole day-cycles they go through).

It might've been better to make them appear a lot less like actual player-characters if they intend to argue that these aren't just NPCs (You could make them totem-pole things or something). That they're the focus of a lot of game mechanics doesn't make them any less of an NPC. As a break in the "no NPC" rule, this doesn't seem necessary, and is very feebly justified.


posté July 31, 2009, 21:19:26 | #5
I will be glad to see our lovely friend Mr [Fulminata] is able to do it along with the other game/player moderators in Wakfu game.

-HOPEFULY- they have spare time for that in game, and on forum as well. *Manic laugh*


posté July 31, 2009, 23:45:11 | #6
lol @ ghetto. Id have to agree with that statement. Stretching mods a bit far.


posté August 01, 2009, 20:35:57 | #7

Quote ([Dalikaeor] @ 31 July 2009 10:14) *

Impressive.

Although, an alternative idea I'd like to suggest, is using player moderators or game moderators as the 'Protectors'. That would keep with the original "NO NPC" rule.

I understand that this might have some flaws, such as the GMs/Mods being online one after another, just to keep the Protector 'available', but then again, this can be taken care of with a nice schedule and a bit of devotion.

Still, an excellent post, thanks a ton, Zidrune. Nice to see the development progressing.


I already tried this before on a different game, it didn't turn out very well.
But, when a player moderator or a game moderator are not logged in as the Protectors. The Protectors would still be there but back into there AI/NPC form.
So it would make them look a little bit more alive and they would be available 24/7.
But the only problem I see, is that people would gather around these "Protectors", and fight them or ask for challenges instead of playing the game and making it the way they want it to be. It kind of destroys the balance of the game and people would be just doing challenges instead of changing the game.


posté August 01, 2009, 21:16:51 | #8
Only question i've got so far, I know they talk about them being perceptors and taking your money, but they don't say about items....

So the question would be: Do they take items as payment too or are we gonna be able to be safe on that?

Did find it a pain when trying to get my equip in a certain game where they would sell it back for major profit after taking it from you..... :/


posté August 04, 2009, 03:07:33 | #9

Quote (ElfShadow @ 01 August 2009 21:18) *
Only question i've got so far, I know they talk about them being perceptors and taking your money, but they don't say about items....

So the question would be: Do they take items as payment too or are we gonna be able to be safe on that?

Did find it a pain when trying to get my equip in a certain game where they would sell it back for major profit after taking it from you..... :/


Are sure they steal money even? It might be parallel collection as in Dofus.


posté August 05, 2009, 07:35:14 | #10

Quote (Eraniverse @ 03 August 2009 18:09) *
Are sure they steal money even? It might be parallel collection as in Dofus.


We need more money sinks >_>

I think it also might be a good idea to have a temple (Class') or crystal that the CMs go to, to sleep or rest while having their abilities available. Or have them pilgrimage to each one and rest between.




posté August 05, 2009, 22:36:28 | #11
Maybe just have the CMs as a job, and in return, you get really high Wakfu and some new skill, or payment instead of the skill. Then there would still be no NPCs, but the CMs would still be in play. And if one fails to show up at the appointed time for their job or whatever it'll be, then they get fired and the CM "back-up" can come in, which would be the computer basically. Also, they can get a new outfit if they wanted too, but only when it's their shift. And the temple idea, I think would be great, except then it would be like a new class, and that'd be kinda weird. So whad'ya think of my idea? Too weird?


posté August 13, 2009, 07:43:08 | #12
When Ankama first announced that there would be "No NPCs!" in Wakfu, i laughed.

One of the main sources of enjoyment for a lot of MMORPG players is questing, it gives the game a personal, human tone. By choosing to have no NPCs Ankama effectively gave themselves two choices: A) Make the game an endless grind that has next to no storyline, or Create quests that have no story are are just there for the could purpose of goal setting (Que their currently inactive "challenges".

While i overly welcome these new "Clan Members" and applaud Ankama for creating a great source of flavour and story, their pathetic excuses that "The Protectors are more than just simple NPCs." are appalling.

Either employ people to play these special characters (like GMs, but not aid-orientated) or stop pretending you game is "NPC free"

Still, one of Ankama's better ideas so far.


posté August 13, 2009, 11:51:12 | #13
Quite the reaction I expected. But please don't put words in my mouth.

Wakfu is not NPC free. In fact, it has never been (monsters are NPC). Me saying "Clan Member is more than a basic NPC" doesn't mean I want to make you believe they are not. It means we want to give them a real identity, a soul, something that make them unique.

Why "Wakfu = no NPC" is the first place ? Where did this idea come from ?
As I have already said, it's not that we hate NPC (it's quite ridiculous). We don't want a man who always is in the same spot and always say the same sentence.

For exemple (a poor one, you're right), it's like the difference between Kokoriko village NPC in Zelda Ocarina of Time and town NPC in Majora's Mask. In the first game, it's quickly boring to hear the same thing from the same guy in the same place (I don't talk to them more than twice). In Majora's Mask, it seems like NPC have a life. And they don't always give you the same information.
Both of them are useful in certain conditions. The question is : what do you want your NPC for ?

In Wakfu, they won't be only decor, we won't place them only to fake life in the villages. YOU will be the life of the game.


posté August 13, 2009, 12:41:55 | #14

Quote (FAQ @ ) *
Wakfu Features:
No NPCs, players control trade and politics.

Stretching NPC's definition to cover "monster" falls rather flat since almost nobody would go for that definition (outside this type of argument), mostly because monsters tend not to seen as having a "character". Killing rats in a sewer is not being evil, nor does it count as killing lots of civilians (who happen to live in the sewer), any more than the Wakfu's scythe-dispenser is a living, breathing person. "Monsters" usually fall into a task of pest-control and training versus a combat-dummy that can fight back. If the only thing you can do with them, is kill or be killed by them (without even a conversation), then where is the character?

It's the same reason most people don't call Halo an RPG, even if you "play" the role of "Master Chief". It's generally accepted that the definition shouldn't be stretched that far.

Why not call every grain of corn an "NPC"? The idea that these are somehow "simple NPC but more" fails somewhat since there is a pre-existing variety of games calling their NPCs, even with AI, and a wide selection of conversation, and daily routines, etc.... as "NPCs". Arguing with a loose definition (e.g. that monsters are NPCs) and a restrictive definition (that simple NPCs don't have this level of interaction) is unhelpful at best, as it produces two conflicting definitions of what Ankama believe NPCs are in the first place. The best comparison for Ankama would probably be in relation to other MMORPG NPCs (or common "village filler" NPCs), but that's only a subset of NPCs. The "simplest" NPCs are not a good base for promoting CMs as an idea.

"No NPCs" by Ankama's definitions can only be interpreted now as "no stationary, unresponsive characters about as interesting as a lump of rock", but I doubt that's as appealing to the market, as spectacular as a game selling itself with "colour graphics". By the same logic the idea of "a new game, different from Dofus" could easily turn out to be "a new name, for Dofus", completely indistinct from Dofus 2.0, but we're not quite there yet.


posté August 25, 2009, 23:02:39 | #15
Arguing as much as ever I see.

I don't think it's such a bad thing, but it does take away from the "No NPC" idea a bit. It's illogical to think that making them controlled by moderators would help, as you could never have a good enough group to take the abuse that a position like that would bring.

I say it's good enough to allow a few NPC's to exist, seeing as out of the whole game there would only be this many. And really, does it make a difference?


posté August 25, 2009, 23:22:00 | #16
I'd be inclined to agree with you Gnome, but this is just another stop sign on the intersection of Ankama's lies. In all seriousness though, it does make a difference because the explanation for the NPC's isn't very strong. Every NPC has AI, making them just a little bit more 'realistic' doesn't really change the definition. The Wakfu site itself, as Goldfish has so handily pointed out, contradicts Ankama's new stance itself. You may call it nitpicking, but it is disappointing, at the very least.


posté August 25, 2009, 23:38:08 | #17
I'm the last person you need to tell about the constant changes. I'd love for it to be possible to keep the no NPC thing going, but like I said there's no possible way that you could have people to man them instead unless you were paying them for it. People have lives, so unless it's their job it's doubtful that it could work.


posté September 04, 2009, 22:32:28 | #18
I don't like leaving the NO NPC idea out. It's one of the unique apeals of the game. It can become just another fantasy MMORPG if too many changes are made.

Questing could be run by players, it's rather complex (and wouldn't work right untill the game have some age and a structured comunity and economy) but it isn't impossible.

For example:
You could make a system of atributes for cities in a way that to raise these city abilities a ruling guild would need insane quantities of materials, therefore issuing gathering and grinding quests on posters in the city.

You could do the same to weapons and other crafted stuff to compel rulling guilds into issuing crafter quests.

You could create an "honor" system (or some name related) in which, to gain honor points, a guild have to issue wanted missions for special monsters or instance quests, that only would be available to cityhalls at a Dev stabilished rate, to avoid abuse. Or be expensive, whatever.

Every quest could give the player that completes some honor points, but only rulling guilds would be able to trade money for honor points (expending money as quest rewards and recieving points for issuing quests and that way "employing" it's citizens).

These points should be highly interesting to people for this to work. It could be used as a requirement to quest some epic itens. It could be the only way to issue a wanted poster quest on a player or anything related to politics (and of course something related to itens and power to draw the general public interest on it).

That way the devs and GMs only have to come up with the writen quests (like on quest scrolls) and a system of availability of these on cityhalls and let the rulling guild decide what kind of quests they want to issue to raise what kind of city atribute.

Something like that would give the game an ultimate goal to the players: to be a mighty ruller! Or to bring them down!

Wars could lower city atributes by having key buildings atacked (market brings down economy, wall bring down defence, yada, yada...). That way it would be hard to have a city with top atributes and, therefore, no need to issue more gathering missions (of course they wouldn't want to stop issuing them and have a lot of their gathering population moving to another city that still issues them).

Well, I'm just brainstorming ideas to try to prove that with a good complex politics system we won't need NPCs. It's quite obvious it will be a messy start if the game takes that road... But that ship is sailed, the game coudn't have a messier start anyway.


posté May 14, 2011, 11:25:15 | #19
How can i join a CLAN???