January 18, 2014, 15:57:30 |
Quote (Neneko88i @ 18 January 2014 08:16)
Quote (GodIsWithUs @ 18 January 2014 04:02)
All I can do is shake my head. You totally did not read what I told you, and you bring up some irrelevent point about how much dolls cost prior to Sadida revamp. Spam summoning is different from summoning that regulates you to one summon or 2 weaker summons at the cost of a lot of stats. You are completely blind to how various types of summoning work. Spam summoning uses a lot more apparant math due to the less restrictions that it has compared to a very finite summoning. I am just going to end this because you obviously are too blind to see the difference in why the costs were how they were.
If left unharmed, a swarm of small creatures can take down a strong opponent.
I sense a jealous osa who wants to spam..
Read what I wrote to soundtrack and hopefully you can understand it. Maybe you're the one being blinded. If you didn't understand that's your problem, no matter how much little/much AP dolls cost you will always summon 2 per turn. The swarm is the same. What we want is to be able to use our element spells the same turn we summon a doll and not spend every turn replacing dolls with 80%-90% of our AP. Azael considered it and it makes sense that a weak 200-300hp doll (ultra powerful) shoudl cost weak AP. This is not complicated
What you just said has nothing to do with what I play as, nor does it deal with you trying to make the Sadida dolls completely comparable to the cost of an Osa summon. It do agree that they need to buff the dolls somewhat, but that is not the point I was making. Also, I play a Gobgob Osa, and have since the first day of revamp unlike all these new ones that use them solely for DP, so I can care little about whether or not Summoner Osamodas can summon spam. Osamodas has three completely different classes in one class, and I have nothing to do with summoning. The point is in the initial quote I quoted you were saying they need to use pretty much the same math for the Osamodas pet as they did for the dolls, which is completely ignorant. Thus, you cannot call me blind since I replied to you about you wanting to Osamodas summonings to use the same math as the Dolls, which is not possible due to the difference in summoning. You completely ignored that, and started mentioning buffing Sadidas, which was not even the point. So who is the blind one really, the person who stays on topic or the person who wants to make every post about buffing Sadidas which was never my point in the first place, and which I never said I was against thus making it pointless to talk to me about buffing when I am actually for it. Here is why you sound ignorant when it comes to trying to use the same math for Osamodas summonings as Dolls:
Hunter (Summoner Osamodas) vs Zergs (Sadida)
The Summoner Osamodas is the prototypical Hunter class that you will find in any other MMO. They have a very finite summoning, both in the number they can have out at one time and throughout the battle. They can summon one decent summoning and be a decent damage dealer themselves. On the other hand, for a very high tradeoff in stats, they can summon two weaker summonings and be a weaker damage dealer themselves. Hence, the Osa gets severly penalized for having more than one summoning, while the Sadida does not get penalized if they want numerous dolls. Secondly, like the Hunter, the Osamodas is the main target for the opponent, and the summoning should not be dealt with. The passives of the Osamodas, except for one, emphasize this through rebirth, healing at death, and reflect. Thus, like the Hunter, it is rather unnecessary to attack the pet since you are only penalizing yourself. Also, the summoning acts as part of the Osa, meaning that the Osa is severely weakened without one, compared to the Sadida which once it gets to a certain number of dolls the dolls after that certain number are not part of the Sadida but rather a bonus, which I will mention later on. In summary, the Osamodas is a Hunter.
Meanwhile, the Sadida functions as a sort of creator of Zergs. small weak creatures that are weak by themselves but powerful when left unharmed and in large number. Sadidas have a rather 'infinite' spamming of dolls, though regulated to two per a turn due to the massive potential of spamming. Hence, that is the first difference between the builds. The Osamodas cannot keep making summonings, while the Sadida can have up to a large number at 6. Being spammable, there are a lot of benefits that come with it. Dolls can block an opponent's path as well as LoS. Also, as previously mentioned, any number past a certain number of dolls is seen as a bonus. So let us pretend that two dolls make Sadidas balanced and thus those two dolls are part of the Sadida, anything more than two is seen as a bonus. The opponent should know this, and thus will attack both the dolls and Sadida since by keeping the dolls unharmed the Sadida will be extremely powerful. There is also an advantage to opponents targeting dolls as well, since it helps prevent the Sadida from taking all the damage from the opponent. Also, the reason they are fragile is to prevent massive potential spamming, along with the two per a turn limit. So to balance out this issue of dolls being too spammable, they thought that something like the cost of a dolls should equal that of a doll's damage in one turn + the amount of AP it takes to kill a doll, which theoretically works on paper. In summary, the Sadida is a spamming summoner that uses Zergs.
So in summary, you are definitely the blind one since you derailed from the topic I initially proposed. You mentioned that Osamodas pets and Sadida dolls should use the similar math, and I tried to point that out to you that they cannot due to vastly different takes on summoning, but you pretty much derailed from that and talked a whole lot more about buffing the Dolls rather than staying on topic and talking about cost of Osamodas pets vs Sadida dolls. So, again, do not derail from the topic. Sadidas and Osamodas can not be similar in terms of math due to how vastly different their summoning is. You are comparing apples to oranges. Also, do not derail and talk about buffing dolls and saying how another person is against it when you do not know that. I am for a small buff, but Ankama needs to be very cautious about how they go about that buff due to the potential of spam summoning. The smallest of buffs for small summoning can make a large difference. AP reduction or HP buff can have massive consequences. If they reduce the AP too low, the doll will be too powerful for its cost since the amount of damage a dolls does + the amount of AP it takes to kill it might be too great compared to what it takes to summon it, which as massive consequences in terms of imbalance. HP buff is similar to that. Ankama cannot make the cost too high because it would not be worth summoning, or too low because it would lead to significant imbalance and make the Sadida very powerful. Balancing spam summoning needs extreme caution. But anyhow, you cannot compare the Osamodas summoning cost to the Sadida doll cost because the summonings are completely different, just how two DPTs can be extremely different.
In short, balancing spam summoning is very tricky and needs caution, and just because two classes can summon does not meant they are the same in terms of summoning.