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Class Revamp - Feca
Overweighted Chafer * Member Since 2012-02-29
posté January 04, 2014, 05:13:00 | #161
I don't understand why they don't just give a cheap "relocate glyph" type skill. Being able to control where your little buff glyphs go is a much better idea than having random skills "move a glyph under a target". I also can't find a spell type that wouldn't benefit from lasting more than 2 turns... water, earth, fire, glyphs, armor - all too short.

One other thing thats a bit off is that they seem to have removed the "roles" from the elements. Fire as an example, has AoE damage, debuffs and taunt/pulls. Some of the skills work on armors, some of the skills work on glyphs. This is a huge setback to what before was a very versatile system that allowed you to apply armors to allies for buffs, armors to enemies for debuffs, glyphs to allies for buffs and glyphs to enemies for debuffs. Now its all discombobulated.

I don't know... I kind of feel like the rework takes an existing class that just needed a few tweaks (such as making it a viable tank, which they accomplished with belligerence and block passives), and have just released a very.. fragmented "jack of no trades" in its place :S

Obviously I'm not looking forward to the new implementation...


Soft Crackler * Member Since 2011-12-03
posté January 04, 2014, 06:09:27 | #162
I see you there, Felfire....(giving the shifty eyes)


- Kat =^.^=


Lazy Bow Meow * Member Since 2013-08-03
posté January 06, 2014, 12:37:16 | #163
My Feedback is as follows.

Element Speels - Don't Really need changing.
Maybe make some water support spells easier to deploy on a cell.

Active Specialty Spells - Again I fell don't really need changing.
I don't like the look of the Teleportation spell moving the target in front of him.

Passive Specialty Spells - Again I fell don't really need changing.
Also I want to keep Counter.

I also have an idea for levelling spells where some experience points can be shared with a second spell. For Multi Role Feca's.

Gylphs
I think a system where glyphs are can be redeployed by removing the first placed glyph would be a good system. I like to plan my deployments.

In short like LoreChief I feel this class only needs a few teaks (not a complete rework).
I want to keep a flexible class with Tank, Support or Damage Dealer or a combo with invested time in the appropriate elements.

I am also not looking forward to this new implementation and would prefer to stay the same as it is now.


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-12-11
posté January 06, 2014, 15:51:58 | #164
I do not want to keep the old Feca. I like it, I can make it work, it has a few very good uses... but it doesn't excel at protecting it's allies. This revamp will change that and also give Feca a boost to it's elemental dmg if desired. I'd like the charges for glyphs to last longer as well but a system where I can cast attack spells and move glyphs around at the same time sounds promising.

Good work Ankama.


Overweighted Chafer * Member Since 2012-02-29
posté January 07, 2014, 06:31:05 | #165
Natural Attack moves the -MP Feca Staff Glyph under the target (pretty good if you can trigger the -3 MP)
Flaming Carpet moves the +AP Avalanche Glyph under the target (pretty good for potentially +2 AP)
Volcano moves the +AP Steamy Glyph under the target (same as Flaming Carpet.)
Drip moves the +Shield Fecammer Glyph under the target (pinch shield)
Bubble moves the Inflict-Damage Meteorite Glyph under the target (only worth moving if you can get an AoE hit on it)
Crashing Wave moves the Inflict-Damage Fecastopheles Glyph under the target (this is pretty much the exact same except marginally stronger than Meteorite....)

There is potential here, I think... However, overall the class will suffer from being unable to maintain glyphs and armors for more than 2 turns. Perhaps if they made it so that +1 mechanics = 1 glyph charge, it would encourage Feca's to stat into the +Mechanics for both the increased # of glyphs, as well as the increased charges. +3 Mechanics = +3 charges. That way you'll get 4 charges just from skilling the passive.

I have to say though, to be honest. It still hurts that we get inconsistent arrays of effects on what currently (soon to be formerly) was a class that could do armors good and bad, as well as glyphs good and bad. The current system is still better, and just needs some of the changes proposed for tankiness.

The following would be perfect:
* Current Feca
* Passives - Keep Ironclad, Take every new proposed Feca passive except for Stabisation Aura. Glyphs and Armors will be restricted to the amount you get just from leveling the Active, since they now only get consumed on turn.
* Actives - Keep G&A (keep the new costs though), keep Teleportation. Take the new Belligerance, Inversion and Peace Armor.
* Water Tree - Armors increase damage types, Glyphs increase resist types.
* Fire - Harmors trigger damage on specific effect, Glyphs trigger AoE damage
* Earth - Armors increase stats (AP, MP, Range, etc), Glyphs trigger enemy debuffs (-AP, -MP, -Range, etc).

There. I just solved Feca's. Make it happen Grou.


Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2013-08-17
posté January 07, 2014, 07:36:31 | #166
Are people really that blind? Cert the charges are slight low, but the new effects are nice and are coherent with each branch.


Water spells: some spells require range that start at 2+ ( the 2 ap 1 mp spell). There is an armor effect to push any close combat enemy away for max dmg potential. Not only that but it gives you so much control on where/how you can activate a glyph. Im not going to give an example on how each glyphs could potentially be used, but - ap and the ability to push enemies away fits the water branch.

Fire: Fire feca is just lovely, so many good spells, but you can only lvl 2 to max if you're hybrid.[ DMG galore] My only concern is whether we will be able to dmg the target as we activate the armor or whether it will nullify the dmg for the activation. If it nullifies the dmg for activation it would kinda useless to activate an armor for 150 % base dmg of that spell over 3 turns. Other than that if it perfectly set up for max dmg power.

Earth: it's the opposite of water. Attract people to it. Removes mp to make kitting harder. Reduces dmg in 3 different ways. One that's basically immunity for two turns before you feels its effect( freaking cling to life 2.0). Each hit you do will give feca more block.

I dont understand why people would want to change any of the effect( armor/glyphs).

Some control, + 1 more charge on everything is all that the feca needs right now, but given the fact that they have such low charges im going to assume that activating an armor doesnt nullify the dmg as a mentionned before.


I know that the current feca glyphs are nice and all but they have so much more limitations that it's extremely hard to be a CMC feca. The skeleton of this feca revamp looks nice. This feca will work perfectly for the more tactical players.

If you're still having doubts about this feca re-read the pdf over and over. Then you'll probably realized why certain things were done on the Feca when you look at the gear you can gear it up with.

-Bee


Ecstatic Whisperer * Member Since 2012-03-02
posté January 07, 2014, 15:07:36 | #167
Reinstating the fact that I really like the look of the new feca, and have to disagree with some of the posts here :p

I think if I were to change one thing, it would either be what Beezle and lorechief offered, a system where +control effects the amount of charges your glyphs have. I would opt for 2 / 3 control = an extra charge. The charges can't be lowered by player attacks / activation so +1 already makes a big impact.
Or personalizing the charges themselves. For example, 2 charges on avalance is too low for a 5ap cost. at lvl 200 it is (almost) guaranteed to give 2ap to every player standing on the glyph.

***
Now considering Volcano moves the steamy glyph, Im thinking its a -ap glyph which at the same cost seems more promising, as lowering enemy ap is usually more effective than increasing ally ap.
***

The proposed feca looks much stronger and fulfills the role of what a feca should be, a defender. The passives work better, and are no doubt stronger. Current fecas have gimmicks at best to support themselves, the costs are awkward and the water glyphs dont even apply all turn, not to mention you can only supply support for / against certain elements at a time.

The high costing fire spells have pretty awkward costs and limitations, but the meteors are a nice touch

Earth looked nice on paper, but adding 1 or 2 ap rarely does anything to a players damage potential (removing 1 ap would mess an enemy up more than adding 1 ap to an ally), which is another reason why the proposed avalanche needs a bit of retouching.

The current feca (water in particular) was too varied, and made it weak.
Ill accept the new feca with open arms thanks

***
One other thing, does fecablades ever beat fecabo in any situation?
The dmg /ap cost is the same and the armour looks better..
***


Community Manager * Member Since 2013-07-08
posté January 07, 2014, 18:09:49 | #168
Hi guys!

Quick note that the Feca devblog is being updated as we speak, so stay tuned for the new updated information and thank you for all of your feedback so far.  

Write your reply here


Community Manager * Member Since 2013-07-08
posté January 07, 2014, 20:40:12 | #169
Quick reply here, the changes have been added and the Feca revamp devblog is now updated!

Changes can be seen in bold teal characters, happy reading!


Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2012-02-29
posté January 07, 2014, 21:25:45 | #170

Quote
Feca Master Effects level 1: +0 Mechanics, +5% Lock bonus, +1% resistances (all) to all players +2% Fire damage.Max level effects: +2 Mechanics, +100% Lock bonus, +10% resistances (all) to all players + 40% Fire damage.


i dont like this... where bost earth ? water got +1 range... but...



Steam give shield earth ? but spell water ?


someone change is cool some one ...


Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-12-11
posté January 07, 2014, 21:26:40 | #171
Can I be upset about losing things I never had to begin with??

I do like the switch from earth spells giving block to giving HP through Feca Absorption. This way block gear has more value to a Feca.

However the base dmg loss for Earth branch Feca's is very disappointing. Heals are not that useful compared to coagulation or shields to prevent dmg altogether. Heal resist is annoying especially for tanks with no HP passives.


This post has been edited by Gynrei - January 07, 2014, 21:41:21.
Grizzled Dandelion * Member Since 2011-06-29
posté January 07, 2014, 21:43:58 | #172
So there's a water spell that grants armour based on Earth and vice versa?

I understand that you guys like to encourage branching out to the other elements (hybridizing), but it seems counter-intuitive. The numbers, on the other hand, are very pleasing


This post has been edited by PewPewZap - January 07, 2014, 21:58:52.
Speechless Crobak * Member Since 2011-06-30
posté January 07, 2014, 22:18:25 | #173
Yay Pheles no-LOS

Fire feca will be unique with no need for LOS.

Thank you for keeping this.

Also when can we test on beta server?


Eccentric Moogrr * Member Since 2013-08-17
posté January 07, 2014, 22:51:50 | #174
Feca absorption is a ver ybad idea for earth fecas. First its only 8 heal at lvl 100. i believe its 8 heal per lvl of absoption, which is a good thing, but it just a heal resist stacker. Mobs usually have a max or 3 hit combot so that 24 heal per turn if you can get 3 lvls. Then again its x heal for however much dmg the mob ditches out.

Not that important:
[Here's how i think heal resist will work: if heal resist is at 20 % it will reduce that heal by 20 % than increase the res. So if you want to do the most heals ,when you actually need it, you dont want to constantly heal the feca ( keeping in mind that fecas dont have that + hp passive that makes heal res stack slower). For an eni its best to have a max amount of hygiene and have the least amount of heal resist to deal with when you have to heal the tank. The only time you actually have to constantly heal a tank is when you fight mobs that hit as hard as magmog. ]

The only time feca absoption will be useful is if you coag a feca with a sadi, the new water feca and osa. That ways when the feca suffers 0 dmg from the mobs combo it will heal 8 per hit suffered. Yet this doesnt happen very often.

You could argue that its good for PvP, but getting hit for 1k to 2k dmg on one hit then getting healed 8 for that hit :/ it kind of a mediocre heal.

then if you use the feca as a pure tank it will have low % dmg, and no + heals, which means absorption heal will be crap.

Feca absoption makes alot more sense as a water effect than earth imo.


Grou should prob flip the effects.


Soft Crackler * Member Since 2011-02-02
posté January 07, 2014, 23:24:30 | #175
@Beezle

Just one thing, it seems that it is per AP.

If you stack 10 levels and the enemy waste 10 AP attacking you, it's the same as a 80 healing effect taking place.


It's actually an interesting idea, we already have Sacs, Sadis, Foggers and Osas with HP shield. I agree that the healing resist build would be annoying, they could perhaps remove that effect, who knows.


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - January 07, 2014, 23:26:08.
Lord Madgobb * Member Since 2011-05-25
posté January 07, 2014, 23:26:17 | #176
Why you are giving self heal to feca?


Quote (Niddhoggy @ 07 January 2014 23:24) *
@Beezle

Just one thing, it seems that it is per AP.

If you stack 10 levels and the enemy waste 10 AP attacking you, it's the same as a 80 healing effect taking place.


It's actually an interesting idea, we already have Sacs, Sadis, Foggers and Osas with HP shield. I agree that the healing resist build would be annoying, they could perhaps remove that effect, who knows.
Its 8 HP healed per AP (base). It would be 80 if feca had 900% earth mastery.

If enemy hit you with base ratio of 16 per AP, then this armor is simply healing you back for half of the dmg received - its better then heal drain of eniripsa. I would suggest to improve eniripsa passive instead of adding something like that to feca.


This post has been edited by Kikuihimonji - January 07, 2014, 23:30:29.
Soft Crackler * Member Since 2011-02-02
posté January 07, 2014, 23:50:44 | #177
I am not sure Kikui, what I understood is the following:

The shield heals 0.08 HP Earth per AP the enemy spent in attacking you, so isn't it 80 base for 10 AP attack at level 100?


I agree with you Kikui, but I'd like to see something different from HP shields, I don't know what they could add, something completely different. In my opinion, the HP shields should have been always a role of the Feca, but they wanted to add it other classes and because of that I wouldn't like to see it being added to the Feca... (the gameplay would then become too common).


EDIT:

Maybe we could have some fixed resistance? Like fixed damage bonus, what we also don't have right now. I loved the fixed damage builds in Dofus, they made weak spells so powerful XD

But anyways, for example, the Feca gains one level of Resistant Skin per AP used to attack. The Resistant Skin adds 5 levels of General Resistance to the caster.

The general resistance is a fixed resistance, meaning that if you have let's say 50 fixed resistance, it reduces the final damage of all attacks by 50.

100 becomes 50
200 becomes 150
500 becomes 450
and it goes on...

Just a thought.


This post has been edited by Niddhoggy - January 07, 2014, 23:57:22.
Narcissistic Larva * Member Since 2012-01-07
posté January 07, 2014, 23:58:56 | #178
Can fecas get an earth boost from passives as well? Perhaps from fecatalysis?? (perhaps +2 to increases in feca absorption or something like that hmm?)

Also, bow armor says it attracts opponents at least 2 spells away from it at level 1. How does this change as the armor levels up?

Also I've seen this mentioned a few times before, the current system of spells having glyph-moving effects is a bit obsolete especially since the spells tend to move glyphs of a different element than the spells themselves and a damaging spell moving a supportive glyph is difficult to work with unless feca spells are incapable of hurting allies. I think fecas should have a spell similar to an enu's mine mover where you can stand on a glyph and cast this spell to move its center to the targeted cell. (or perhaps give this ability to an existing spell such as belligerence or GoA)

Thanks  


This post has been edited by yony7427 - January 08, 2014, 00:22:08.
Bellaphone Lover * Member Since 2012-02-29
posté January 08, 2014, 00:41:42 | #179
%earth not give bost heal ?

example 0.08 * 100 lvl = 8 but (600% earth?) = 48

so. 6 AP = 6 Armor lvls possible... = 48 * 6 = 288 heal ?

but in 100lvl ... 12 AP = 12 Armor so 48 * 12 = 576 ?

if earth% dont give bost = 96 heal (so prettry usless)


Soft Crackler * Member Since 2011-02-02
posté January 08, 2014, 01:06:07 | #180
@Nsuidara

Probably earth increases the base damage, what I don't know is if that 0.08 Heal is also per AP. A feca with 400% earth at 100 would heal only 40 for every attack it receives... I think it must be based in the quantity of AP, otherwise it'd have too low values.

Even though 400 healing sounds a lot, I'm starting to see that the values are well balanced, considering the fact that we get heal resistance.